Started on the Roberts Bestone

Discussions on Talking Machines of British or European Manufacture
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JerryVan
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Re: Started on the Roberts Bestone

Post by JerryVan »

I know you're wanting a higher caliber restoration that what I'm proposing. If it were mine, I'd leave the backing plate alone. Most of the rust is covered by the retaining ring anyway. The rest could be disguised with a very small amount of aluminum paint. However, you've done some excellent work so far, and I know I'll end up being impressed when you finally end up doing better than what I propose. :)

Lah Ca
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Re: Started on the Roberts Bestone

Post by Lah Ca »

JerryVan wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2024 2:00 pm I know you're wanting a higher caliber restoration that what I'm proposing. If it were mine, I'd leave the backing plate alone. Most of the rust is covered by the retaining ring anyway. The rest could be disguised with a very small amount of aluminum paint. However, you've done some excellent work so far, and I know I'll end up being impressed when you finally end up doing better than what I propose. :)
Unfortunately most of the rust isn't covered by the retaining ring/back flange.

I may go buy a bottle of the rust converter and try it on a spot well away from the screw holes that go through to the paper label on the front, and, if that works well, expand outward. I can always thread waxed pieces of bamboo skewer into the holes to prevent liquid from accidentally going through to the paper. This would all be in prep for some kind of refinishing.

I am leaning towards the kids' bicycle chrome hack from my childhood. It's easy. You just take a bit of steel wool to the rust, and then rub the area vigorously with a crumpled piece of aluminium foil. The rusty area polishes up nice and chrome-like. It's reasonably durable. And if it pops off because of the underlying rust, you just repeat the process. I would probably apply a couple of coats of palm wax afterwards to protect it.

The aluminium foil hack could be done without the rust converter treatment, too.

Lah Ca
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Re: Started on the Roberts Bestone

Post by Lah Ca »

Today I gave the small metal bits that had gone through the rust removal bath a good long soak in denatured alcohol. Then I worked them over again with a toothbrush and bit of steel wool and rinsed and dried them thoroughly.

Then they went into a bath of gun bluing liquid. They stayed there a bit too long because of a minor marital dispute--there is sometimes limited understanding that things cannot always be abandoned, even for just a second, once being started. :D

Then I rinsed them in water and gave them a work over with the toothbrush again and dried them. When they were thoroughly dry, I worked them over with steel wool again to give them an antique worn look that matches their general condition.

I also put most of the screws back into the holes they belong in. It keeps them safe and safely associated with their homes. And where it seemed appropriate, I gave them a little touch of synthetic grease on the threads.

Here are the screws for the needle bar and the thumbscrew for the needle chuck--grease for the thumb screw, none for the needle bar screws.
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I also put a first coat of palm wax on the back flange/retaining ring, inside and out. It looks very shiny and from any distance, you cannot see any damage to the plating.
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Lah Ca
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Re: Started on the Roberts Bestone

Post by Lah Ca »

After reading the labels for the two products, the rust converter and the rust remover, I decided not to use them.

I also looked at the colours and finishes of various aluminium and sliver rust paints (as evidenced by caps and labels) and decided I didn't like them when compared with the back plate.

So I went with the bicycle chrome hack. I had not used this technique since my children were small and we would do "maintenance" together on their bikes. Sadly aluminium foil has changed over the years. It now seems to be a different alloy, thinner and harder. Older foil, thicker and softer, worked much better at disguising rust damage.

I rubbed the damaged areas with palm wax and then forcefully ground the foil in. I let the wax harden for a bit, buffed it lightly, and then repeated the process several times. My hope is that the wax will both slow down further oxidation of the damaged back plate and, as it hardens, act as a bonding agent for the aluminium fragments. Any later touch up required can be easily done.

The results are not entirely pretty (vintage aluminium foil would have been better), but visually from any distance they are less jarring than they would have been with paint.

Pictures moving in closer ...
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Lah Ca
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Re: Started on the Roberts Bestone

Post by Lah Ca »

A voice inside my head says, "Oh ... don't leave that open bottle of neetsfoot oil sitting there on the edge of the old towel. If the towel catches on the case, the bottle will tip over and the oil will spill everywhere over the desktop."

I answer, "Hmmm ... yeah, right. I'll just move the case first."

Wrong answer!

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Inigo
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Re: Started on the Roberts Bestone

Post by Inigo »

:o oh!
Inigo

Lah Ca
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Re: Started on the Roberts Bestone

Post by Lah Ca »

Yesterday, I tested my small upholstery wet vacuum cleaner on a small area inside the case. It seemed to go OK. The velvet is not colour fast, but ...

So today I did as much of the inside of the case as I could safely do, avoiding things like the Bestone label. I cleaned it all quite thoroughly. There was good colour improvement in some areas, whether the improvement stays when it drys completely we shall see.

The case is cardboard and leather. Part of the problem I have been having is that, while the leather is now increasingly pliable, the warped cardboard under it is not. I have been trying to remove warps from the case but with only limited success. The cleaning will dampen the cardboard slightly, which I hope will make it easier to reshape. I have laid down multiple layers of paper towel inside the case, covered it with wax paper, a stacked boxes of 78s on top. I have slats placed strategically under the case to allow for the feet and the handle. Fingers crossed.

I will probably have to work with a brush to bring the velvet pile back up later.

It is hard to see to the bottom of the liquid because the dye used was not colour fast, but there is about a 1/16" of black sludge at the bottom of the glass.
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Lah Ca
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Re: Started on the Roberts Bestone

Post by Lah Ca »

Case Progress

The case is reaching a critical phase. The leather is starting to develop that buttery feel of new leather and there is persistent sheen starting to appear. Formerly the leather would revert to a damaged, dried out look a short while after every treatment. I think the neetsfoot oil treatment schedule will go from every other day to every other week with only very cautious applications, The leather needs more oil but too much is bad, very bad. And crossing the line from improvement to very bad is a definite Rubicon, according the folks at Lonsdale Leather.

Using the upholstery cleaning machine worked out well. The areas of faded colour that turned darker, closer to original colour, unfortunately did not stay dark. But everything is cleaner, and I managed to get the lines of aluminium oxide out of the lid. In the distant past, the case got wet, very wet, and something heavy was stacked on it, pressing the lid down into contact with the horn and frame/motor board. There is still some aluminium oxide on the side of the case where the rivets went through. This will not be visible when the machine is reassembled, so I did not bother too much with these stains.
Screenshot from 2024-02-03 07-31-33.png

As I suspected, getting the inside of the case damp allowed it to be reshaped. The warp on the back of the case (the closed case) or the bottom of the case (the open case) is considerably reduced, The lid, the most damaged part of all, is also considerably improved. The flatter I get both, the less the strain on the damaged leather that hinges the lid. Also the lid closes without effort now, and the latches for the locks are increasingly better aligned. I have a bit more work to do here, I think I will cut a board to fit snugly in the open case and lid so that the weights I use (boxes of 78s) distribute their pressure more evenly.

I am slowly getting there.
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alang
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Re: Started on the Roberts Bestone

Post by alang »

This transformation is nothing short of amazing :o

Thanks for the continuous updates!
Andreas

Lah Ca
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Re: Started on the Roberts Bestone

Post by Lah Ca »

I worked on the brake mechanism today. Frustratingly, it does not disassemble.

The base got a rust remover bath. I cleaned it up with steel wool, the base and the spring, gave it an alcohol bath, and then went over it with a q-tip and some more steel wool.

It came up quite nicely. I was worried that I might have to paint it because it looked like a bit of a train wreck initially, but the rust was all flash surface rust that just popped the plating loose. I think I will just wax it to protect it and then monitor it for rust.

The leaf spring is blued steel. There was minor rust and lots of places the bluing had come off. I may touch up the bluing with a small brush or just wax it, too.

I need to do something with the brake pad, but I won't know what until I reassemble the machine. I don't know how much clearance to allow with the brake off.

Before:
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After:
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