A serious question on a sensitive topic

[Django]

Some, (probably most), “Tin Pan Alley” music for example was racist, but music that includes people of color is not necessarily racist. An example would be “Hello Ma Baby”. The sheet music cover art shows well dressed middle class presumably African American people using some of the most modern technology available. The lyrics use the term “darkie” once, but not in a targeted manner. The thing that interests me is the relationship being over the telephone and the fact that today, this is still happening in chat rooms on computers. But the majority of the Tin Pan Alley songs are extremely derogatory in their lyrics and the cover art. Each song should probably be evaluated on it’s own merits, but if it labels itself as a coon song, then it has already crossed the line.

Surely "the majority of Tin Pan Alley songs" are nothing more than variations on the theme of love?

My wording of “most” may just my perception, but there was a large volume of racist music composed there. Of course not all music with racial content is racist.

https://pix11.com/news/local-news/effor ... -past/amp/

[Damfino59]

There are just as many back racists as there are white racists. And I guess you feel reparations to blacks is warranted?

This is where we’re running off the rails.

This has nothing to do with the original OP question.

This thread needs to be noticed by the forum administrators & dealt with. As it’s becoming very political.

[rgordon939]

Maybe the answer is to destroy all cylinders and records. There are certainly many of each that are disparaging of blacks, Jews, Irish, Italians, etc.

Rich Gordon

[victor 15-1]

The best answer I have read during this whole s..t show

[phonograph guy3435]

,

Maybe the answer is to destroy all cylinders and records. There are certainly many of each that are disparaging of blacks, Jews, Irish, Italians, etc.

Rich Gordon

Rich, I don't think we should do that but just don't be proud about what's in the record. just look back on it and see how much we have changed and how we can get better. I myself have three cylinders (all blue amberols) that have offensive wording including Darkie, dark town, and Redman. these are only used once in the recordings and it is in no way the focus of the song but it doesn't really feel great to hear them when the cylinder plays.

[KCW]

I do appreciate much of the education here. The question came up because I have seen cylinders referred to as “coon records”, and although I had a pretty strong suspicion of what they were I was looking for some further wisdom from the experts. I’m grateful for learning more here. I don’t think I’ll be buying any, but the knowledge added is so important.

I did not intend to spark a big debate, and do apologize for posting this under “machines”, where it should have been posted elsewhere under “music.”

One thing is for sure, this is a great forum, where I learn a lot. Perhaps this is a good place to let the tension dissipate and take a moment to realize that this forum keeps history alive and well. We will continue to learn from it, and can hear the echos of the past, educating and re-educating us. If we don’t learn about the bad stuff, we might repeat it. I’m appreciative for the education here.

What is it about an older cylinder that is so wonderful? Sometimes I find a piece I really love, but not too often. But I also like thinking about the person who bought the record, and even the person that sold it. Who did they take it home to and play it for? Who inherited it? How exactly did it end up in my hands and where might it be 50 or 100 years from now? Who were the musicians playing on the recording, not just who were the singers? There’s endless stories on these cylinders and the machines that play them. This forum is the venue where I learn the most. Thank you for that!

[Django]

It was a sensitive topic, but one that is important to many. It’s a forum. A place to debate, share and exchange opinions. I don’t believe that any real or lasting harm was done, especially by you.

[phonogal]

I do appreciate much of the education here. The question came up because I have seen cylinders referred to as “coon records”, and although I had a pretty strong suspicion of what they were I was looking for some further wisdom from the experts. I’m grateful for learning more here. I don’t think I’ll be buying any, but the knowledge added is so important.

I did not intend to spark a big debate, and do apologize for posting this under “machines”, where it should have been posted elsewhere under “music.”

One thing is for sure, this is a great forum, where I learn a lot. Perhaps this is a good place to let the tension dissipate and take a moment to realize that this forum keeps history alive and well. We will continue to learn from it, and can hear the echos of the past, educating and re-educating us. If we don’t learn about the bad stuff, we might repeat it. I’m appreciative for the education here.

What is it about an older cylinder that is so wonderful? Sometimes I find a piece I really love, but not too often. But I also like thinking about the person who bought the record, and even the person that sold it. Who did they take it home to and play it for? Who inherited it? How exactly did it end up in my hands and where might it be 50 or 100 years from now? Who were the musicians playing on the recording, not just who were the singers? There’s endless stories on these cylinders and the machines that play them. This forum is the venue where I learn the most. Thank you for that!

If you enjoy the history of these machines and the records, it adds to your appreciation/enjoyment of the hobby I think. When I buy a machine that has known family history behind it, I ask the seller if they will please send me a little information about their family member and where the machine was purchased etc. I then place this in a ziplock bag and place it under the motor board for a future owner to find. Period recordings tell a story of what was going in that time period both good and bad. We should learn from history. Every year a certain number of records, cylinders are destroyed for many reasons (mold, swollen plaster, shrinking celluloid etc.) and eventually they will exist no more.

[paradroid1793]

It is just a style of ragtime. Most of these songs from after 1910 are actually pretty innocent, you only have to worry about the ones recorded before 1910.

MisterGramophone, you are terribly wrong. In 1916, Columbia released "N-word Love A Watermelon - Ha! Ha! Ha!". Keeping it on sale until 1925 as a song of "classic slave days".

No, they're not pretty innocent.

[m_nakamura]

I remember visiting a museum for Japanese Interment Camps. The workers there were very caring and didn't want to show me too much, probably because I myself am from Japan, and I wasn't even a teenager at the time. One thing I found interesting that the workers couldn't hide from me was a record called "We Gotta Slap The Dirty Little Jap". Pretty sad how something like music & records were weaponized not just against Japanese, but also the pre-mentioned Minstrel songs.