The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

As you said, the effect of the cleaned purple velvet is magnificent...

Inigo wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:13 pm My God! It is starting to look so beautiful that you'll have to touch it with white antique librarian gloves on your hands...!!!

LOL. Thanks.

An Balores wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:46 am Nice to see the attention to detail. It will be well worth all the effort you have expended on this machine to restore it.

Thank you.

Inigo wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:03 pm As you said, the effect of the cleaned purple velvet is magnificent...

The camera does not really do the original colour justice. The machine would have been visually stunning when new.

Cheap, useful tools for polishing the inside of the horn and the name-plate/grill.
The sponge brush was particularly useful, at first for washing and rinsing and secondly for polishing. It was possible to wrap a microfibre cloth around and then secure it with small narrow zap straps. The (drink) straw cleaning brush was useful for loosening debris, cleaning the open areas of the name plate, and then for a bit of polishing as a bit of rag could be secured around it, too.

The Garrard 3 Motor--Motor Noise

When I was buying the machine in the Salvation Army store, there was a fair amount of tension left in the spring, and the motor ran for quite some time and quite quietly,too, when I released the brake—no obvious mechanical or spring noises. However the store was not entirely quiet; there was noise from the staff and other shoppers.

When I finally got the motor out of the machine, I discovered that a small piece had broken off the end of the non-return spring and that the spring was free of the top plate of the motor. I fixed this today, improving upon my earlier temporary and slightly dangerous band-aid fix. I extracted a bit more wire from the spring, straightened it, bent the end, and fastened it under the screw-down cleat on the top plate. So now I can safely wind up the motor by using a curved pair of needle nose pliers as a crank—I still do not have a proper crank.

With the motor out of the machine and with no load on it, it now makes a slow, quiet, regular, clock-like tic, tic, tic noise. It seems to be coming from the governor side of the motor. It is quieter with the motor suspended from my hand than with it just sitting on my work table/desk. The frequency of the tic slows as I slow the motor with the speed control lever.

The governor was quite sloppy along the axis of its shaft, and when I moved the shaft back and forth (not touching any of the spring mechanism), it made a tic noise. So I tightened things up, but there was no change in the noise from the running motor, and I loosened it up again but not to the same degree of slop. I checked the screws for the governor springs—all good. I gently checked to see if there were any obviously loose weights—all good.

So I am thinking the noise is coming from the spindle shaft and related gears. There some slop in the top spindle brass bearing; I can’t tell about the bottom. There is slop between the spindle’s upper gear and the worm gear of the governor. There is slop between the geared bottom of the spindle shaft and the drive gear.

The state of lubrication for the machine wasn’t horrible, nothing bone dry and no wax posing as grease. I freshened things up a bit with grease and oil where appropriate. The machine seems to run a little better, but the tic is still there.

I know that motors behave differently when running with a load. All of my machines are mechanically noisier running with no platter. They are quieter with the platter and quieter again under the drag of a record and needle. It will be interesting to see what happens when I put the motor back in the machine.

I know I should probably send the motor off to a rebuild specialist with a machine shop and get it all redone properly, bearings included, but it is a rather rare motor, the least common Garrard model, and I would not readily entrust to the postal service or a courier.

I did a trial reassembly, inserting the aluminium frame/motor-board back into the case in order to assess the effectiveness of my warp removal.

I found that I need to get the top/lid a lot flatter if I do not want it to rip itself free of the case eventually. The (now considerably reduced) concave warp in the lid still does not allow the latches to line up properly when the aluminium frame is in the case. Force is required. Force puts stress on the damaged leather hinge.

More work is required. I dampened the inside of the lid again, laid down layers of paper towel to absorb excess water and distribute humidity more evenly, covered all with wax paper, and inserted a board cut to the shape of the case bottom and lid. Then I placed the old bed slats strategically and clamped it all down. I also placed boxes of 78s in the case. We shall how this goes.

Getting Close to Done

The Case

The case will need continued work with neetsfoot oil and straightening--a little at a time.

Lonsdale leather sells a product for treating/finishing the rough edges of leather, so I will probably go buy some.

Tweaks and tweaks over time.

You can see the Chicago screws that I used to replace the bifrucated rivets in the pictures below. I used the black ones but took steel wool to the tops of them to make them look old and abused. I had to drill things out just a little to get them to fit. They work very well.

The Machine
The photo below is staged. I cannot wind the motor up when it is in the case--no crank, yet.

Things that remain to be done:

1. Need a better diaphragm. I ordered two. One is terrible. The other is marginal. I am using the marginal one. Sounds OK. Looks bad. Contacted vendor. No meaningful reply. Won’t order again from this vendor.

2. Need new gasket-washers for the tone arm and reproducer. I soaked the originals in alcohol for a few minutes which softened them up a tiny bit, made them a bit gummy, and made them easier to clean. The backflange one is doing what it should do--no air leaks from the reproducer. The one between the reproducer and the tone arm needs replacing for cosmetic reasons, but I got it soft enough that it is probably sealing OK. I would like to replace them both. I may have a line on some natural gum ones ... we shall see.

3. I need a new o-ring for between the tone arm and the horn. I soaked the orginal in alcohol also, but the effects were not as dramatic as with the gaskets. Still I managed to get it soft enough to get it back on the tone arm upsidedown without destroying it. It looks better, and peering into the closed lid using my snake light, I see that it is probably sealing OK-ish, but it is not elastic enough to function really well. I have an idea where I can find one. I just need to get over the embarrassment of going to look.

4. I need rubber replacements for the vibration insulating washers between the motor and the motor board. I could not find anything locally, so I made felt ones. They will do for now.

5. I probably need to have the motor completely serviced by someone with a machine shop. I have never done a motor, but I could probably take it apart, clean it, relubricate it all, do the spring (never done one before) and put it all back together. The Garrard 3 is a very simple motor with very few parts. But I don’t think my work would fix the problem with the tic. Later.

6. I need to repair the disintegrated cardboard and rexine on one side of the bottom of the case at the front. I have a cunning plan.
7. I need a crank. I have a line on what I think is a Birch crank—might be able to pick it up on Feb 28th. It is of appropiate dimensions. I will just need to convert the end to a fork. Everywhere I have looked within easy driving distance has no 5/16ths steel rod that is not threaded—so haven’t tried making one. Still looking for a real Garrard crank, too. I have a feeling if I do find one, there will be a financial standoff—It’$ $uper rare $$$$--Yes but the people who need one are very few.

8. I need to redo the pad on the brake. There is nothing left, and things are mostly down to bare metal. But there is not much clearance, so whatever I attach to the brake will need to be thin. When I was looking at garbage rubber washers today, there were quite a number that did not have the centres fully punched out. I will measure the brake and see if the ID of any of the washers matches up. I also bought some hollow punches the other day, but there is definitely some skill to using them—I may or may not be able to cut something nicely. If at first you don’t succeed, get a bigger dead blow hammer.

Lah Ca wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:53 pm
1. Need a better diaphragm. I ordered two. One is terrible. The other is marginal. I am using the marginal one. Sounds OK. Looks bad. Contacted vendor. No meaningful reply. Won’t order again from this vendor.

Hmmm .... I need to retract the statement about the vendor. Things have started moving in a "meaningful" direction.

As an accursed generalist, I am reasonably competent at many things but truly skilled at few.

In the not even competent area, there is metal work. It has never been my forte, and I have done very little metal fabrication since Jr. High School shop classes. I have some tools, but they are mostly crude things, not useful for any fine work.

So I have discovered that making a crank is harder than I had anticipated--concepts are simple--the work is not without a decent vice or a rod bending jig and of course skill. I tried making a prototype crank out of 3/8ths rod that I have plenty of, too large yes, but not for practice. The results were not encouraging. But with repeated practice, I did get better at cutting the fork in the end of the rod more accurately.

A couple of people locally, including my mechanic, have offered to help if I make a 40 min drive to the nearest place I can find 3' lengths of 5/15ths rod in stock. And I think I will soon have a crank that can be modified--I am increasingly confident that I will be able to adapt it. I will keep practising cutting slots in my other rod stock. I will only get one chance the crank .

Being impatient, I turned my drill press into a lathe and milled down the threaded shaft on a 3/8ths lag bolt to 5/16ths and then cut a slot and shaped the end.

I can wind the machine up now using a ratcheted socket driver--not a good long term solution but OK for the moment.

The motor runs fairly quietly under a load, and the tic, tic, tic noise is either gone or inaudible. It runs stably at 78 RPM without much wow and flutter. The spring is quiet both winding and playing, but it is a very small spring, and in the machine's current condition it struggles to play 12" records, particularly electrically recorded ones. The motor really does need a complete overhaul and tune up.
While winding the machine one time, my non-return spring repair gave way dramatically. I had to take everything apart to fix it (again) and then reassemble it all. I can do it in my sleep now.

What does the Bestone sound like?

Very good actually, And very loud.

In comparison to my other portables, it lacks bottom end, but the mids and highs are very clear, maybe almost as good as my HMV 102c.

It does not fare well, however, with anything beyond a medium tone steel needle, and even medium tone needles can seriously overdrive the horn with some records. Fibre needles are better, and they also seem to give better bass response.

The machine also sounds quite good with the lid open with only the tone arm as a horn. It is surprisingly loud but not as loud as with the horn.

One curious thing with the machine is that you need to be certain that you have needles inserted as deeply as they will go into the chuck. If you don't, the machine can skip while playing because there is so very little clearance between the reproducer and the closed lid of the case.

If anyone is at all interested in demo, I might be able to arrange a streaming session on the Jitsi platform if our time zones allow.