Questions about Canadian Berliner VV-VI

[alang]

I recently found a nice Berliner branded VV-VI and was wondering if the same serial number system was used for these as for US Victrolas. The fact that it is a VV-VI-A with serial #343416 would put it into early 1918, if I interpret the Victor Data Book correctly. Or did Victor use a completely different numbering scheme for these exports?

I'm also curious about a little hole in the tonearm close to the back bracket. It looks like it has been there for a long time, but I wonder why? Could that have been for some kind of attachment, or simply phono-vandalism?

Thanks
Andreas

[gramophone78]

The serial numbers on Canadian Victor's have nothing to do with the US counter parts. Two completely different sets. Has for the hole....it was for putting a drop of oil.

[whoopinola]

I've had quite a few VV-IVs and VV-VIs over the years, mostly Berliner Gramophone , and have had a few Grinnel Bros , but have never seen a Grinnel Bros store label where your's is....something new every day

[estott]

I've got a handsome silver plate saxophone engraved with the Grinnell Bros. house brand name - I love telling people I play a Wolverine Sax.

[alang]

The serial numbers on Canadian Victor's have nothing to do with the US counter parts. Two completely different sets. Has for the hole....it was for putting a drop of oil.

Really? So much for trying to keep it air tight I guess. Would that hole be closed with a plug or screw or something?
Thanks
Andreas

[alang]

The serial numbers on Canadian Victor's have nothing to do with the US counter parts. Two completely different sets. Has for the hole....it was for putting a drop of oil.

So the numbers are not related. Just by coincidence this one would have fit properly into the US numbers, since it seems to be a VV-VI-A Type M... Are these Canadian Victor serial numbers documented anywhere?
Thanks
Andreas

[Lenoirstreetguy]

This machine was sold by Grinnell. They were based in Detroit Michigan, but they did have a couple of branches in Southwestern Ontario. One was in Windsor and I think there was one in Chatham. This means one can localize that machine to those two locations.
I thought the Berliner/Victor serial numbers that were different in the post 1912 period had a C prefix, but I could be wrong and often am.

Jim

[gramophone78]

The serial numbers on Canadian Victor's have nothing to do with the US counter parts. Two completely different sets. Has for the hole....it was for putting a drop of oil.

So the numbers are not related. Just by coincidence this one would have fit properly into the US numbers, since it seems to be a VV-VI-A Type M... Are these Canadian Victor serial numbers documented anywhere?
Thanks
Andreas

All documents were tossed out after the take over of Berliner by Victor in the late 20's. Too bad there were no dumpster divers there for that... . Of course, I would have been first in line.... .
I may be wrong too. However, that is what I was told. The numbers are sequential to the US models. Maybe some else can fill us in more??.

[FloridaClay]

Interesting that the main plate on yours looks pretty much identical to the one on my US VV-VI. Wondering if maybe yours might be a US machine with the Candian Berliner plate just tacked on back in the day?

The hole at the back of the tone arm on mine has a screw in it.

Clay

[gramophone78]

Interesting that the main plate on yours looks pretty much identical to the one on my US VV-VI. Wondering if maybe yours might be a US machine with the Candian Berliner plate just tacked on back in the day?

The hole at the back of the tone arm on mine has a screw in it.

Clay

Again,I may be wrong in my comments as I don't collect hornless machine's like this. However, Berliner made his own parts in Montreal. He also had his "own" way of making and decorating parts. A good example would be the Canadian oak "L" door I bought (posted in another thread). The tone arm and bracket are uniquely Canadian. I'm sure that some parts are interchangeable. Another great example is a Berliner/Victor elbow or tone arm on the Canadian Vic. 1-6. Berliner (Montreal) made both of these in two parts. The bend on both are "cast". The elbows on the bracket end are also a bit larger. They will not fit a US made back bracket. They also have a higher or upward angle in them. Berliner also made a horn decal that looks exactly like a Victor. However, they say "Berliner Gramophone" in the banner instead of "Victor Talking Machine".

Just my two cents... .