Berliner Gramophone

[Le0]

Hi, I'm trying to find information on the different Berliner Gramophone models but I have a hard time doing so...
here's all I found:
http://mrgramophone.com/index.cgi?mode= ... y=Berliner
http://keithwright.ca/CAPP/Berliner/berliner.html


below are the machines I'm trying to find more information about. the first is supposed to be a model D but it's different from the ones in both links. the second is supposed to be a model E and I can see the horn is different as well as the base and tag location.

I want to make sure they are not frankenphones/crapophones assembled from mismatch origial parts.
thank you for your highly valued knowledge.

[Phonofreak]

These look like legitimate Canadian Berliners. They don't look mismatched or Hodge-podge. I have seen the over-sized trade mark machine in the Daniel Marty book, and the Christopher Proudfoot Gramophone book. Perhaps our Canadian collectors can shed some light.
Harvey Kravitz

[Le0]

thanks for your opinion... I know good reproductions are around so I'm really skeptical about these Berliners.
I really hope they're the real deal so I can bring one back home where it was born (Montreal).

I should get better pictures this weekend.

[gramophone78]

Both Canadian. The "D" looks fine the late "E" does not have a Berliner reproducer on it. Because the "E" is fairly common.....that will dramatically effect the value with the incorrect reproducer. By the way, your photo's are very poor to give the proper answers you seek. If the "E" dos not have a black knob on the crank....it will also be incorrect for the "late" version. No way to tell if the arm's, etc... are repro or the finishes are original....sorry.

[Le0]

yeah... I know the pictures aren't fantastic, but that's all I have untill this week-end.
I will pass on the model E because of the reproducer and the brown knob (which isn't correct according to what you said).

I bet the finish was redone, but I can't tell for sure before I get better pics. the leather elbow looks clearly like a repro.

a few more pictures of the model D, it might help a bit...

[gramophone78]

I'm sorry to inform you....the leather elbow is the least of your concern. The elbow clamp & tone arm/assembly are quality reproductions made by a man here in Canada. So, all I can say (at this point) is the case is that of a "D". Because of what I have now seen....there is a higher chance other parts may also be suspect. Again, I'm sorry for the news. The crank is not flat across but, with a slight bend. This tells me the crank is off a side wind model. A common thing some sellers/collectors do when missing the correct crank.

[Le0]

allright...
these Berliner machines are really tricky and it's so easy to be fooled if you are not a Berliner expert.

is it still an interesting machine worth further investigation or I better run away?

I also know "value" is subjective, but what would be the ballpark for this one (according there are no other repro/incorrect parts)?

[gramophone78]

allright...
these Berliner machines are really tricky and it's so easy to be fooled if you are not a Berliner expert.

is it still an interesting machine worth further investigation or I better run away?

I also know "value" is subjective, but what would be the ballpark for this one (according there are no other repro/incorrect parts)?

I can't answer these questions. There are way too many factors. How badly you want one?. Do repro parts bother you?.....etc...... As I wrote previously....the photo's are too poor to make any further comments on condition or issues.
Bottom line.....if you love the machine(s) for what they are (or not) and the price is one you can afford....go for it!!. You have a better idea what your looking to buy now. I hope this helps... .

[Le0]

allright...
these Berliner machines are really tricky and it's so easy to be fooled if you are not a Berliner expert.

is it still an interesting machine worth further investigation or I better run away?

I also know "value" is subjective, but what would be the ballpark for this one (according there are no other repro/incorrect parts)?

I can't answer these questions. There are way too many factors. How badly you want one?. Do repro parts bother you?.....etc...... As I wrote previously....the photo's are too poor to make any further comments on condition or issues.
Bottom line.....if you love the machine(s) for what they are (or not) and the price is one you can afford....go for it!!. You have a better idea what your looking to buy now. I hope this helps... .

I'd like to have one, that's for sure... I would also prefer a pristine, completely original machine but I could get along with a repro arm and wrong crank if the price goes accordingly. at $300 bucks I'd take it with no hesitation but I have no reference for pricing and the information is scarce on the web so determining the value is like juggling blindfolded.
I'll wait for other pictures and see what else is wrong before taking my final decision.

[gramophone78]

I'll wait for other pictures and see what else is wrong before taking my final decision.[/quote]

Sounds like a wise move. Also keep in mind that "loose" parts are not easy to come across. A reproducer could run you several hundred dollars.....IF you can find a collector that has or wants to sell one. I have seen elbow clamps sell from $350 - $1100+. So,it all adds up when needed.

I wish you the best of luck.