Anyone ever tried replacing cylinder pegs in a cabinet? : (

[FellowCollector]

If you have then you can commiserate with me.

I recently purchased a couple of really nice original cylinder record cabinets that had all of the original cylinders pegs removed - and with very little apparent reverence, I might add, for the drawer bottom boards. My sincere intention is to restore the cylinder cabinets to their original glory including replacing all of the hastily removed pegs with reproduction pegs. But wait...there's more. A previous owner decided to glue (ohhhh noooo!) the drawer bottoms in place. So, I first have to remove the glue from the bottom boards and then I can remove the bottom boards and then I must try to clean out the 100+ year old horse hide glue from the original peg holes in all the boards (36 peg holes in each of 8 boards! Whew!). I've been in contact with a gentleman who has provided some very helpful advice on cleaning out the original circular peg holes when I get to that point. But step 1 is to remove the glue on the drawer bottoms so that I can then remove the bottoms to then attempt an effective job at cleaning out the old peg hole glue from each of the circular holes.

Look at the pictures and you can see what I am confronted with. Now, please recognize that I have many original cylinder record cabinets in the collection - but all had (and still have) their original cylinder pegs intact when I purchased the cabinets. So, I'm treading on new ground here and I never dreamed this would be such a tedious, time consuming job. I realize that a good hole saw of the proper size on a drill press will help clean out the existing old glue from the existing holes and, again, I have been provided some great advice on doing that. But I would love to hear from others who have already trod this uncertain path I am about to take - so that I may avoid making some inevitable mistakes I am liable to make. These are some nice cabinets and I am trying not to mess anything up.

Thanks, in advance, for sharing any of your experiences.

- Doug

[Brad]

Assuming your replacement pegs are the same diameter as the grooves in place, you will need to remove all the old glue. Glue in the cardboard caps and stamp print the peg numbers before you glue the pegs in. I would start with the bottom shelf/back row as any early learning mistakes will be hidden. Take a Solo red (or blue) plastic bowl and put hyde glue in the bowl to a depth that you want to have on the pegs. Dip the pegs in the bowl and you will have a nice consistent amount of glue around the peg. Glue in place.

Make sure you have the peg numbers in the order that you want.

If you intend to drill the holes in order to change diameter and/or give you a new hole to glue the pegs in, you will have a challenge to insure that each drill gets perfectly centered over the old grooves. Best you can do here is take your time and pay attention to detail.

I have not had to replace pegs on existing shelves, but I do have a cabinet in waiting that I will have to tackle the exact same. I have built replacemet shelves and glued pegs into holes I drilled. I am very interested in anything you learn.

[phonogfp]

I had a similar project some years ago, and found that using a jeweler's screwdriver from an inexpensive set worked very well to pry up and remove the old glue and cardboard remnants from the grooves.

When it came time to glue in the new pegs, I simply held a tube of carpenter's glue in one hand and slowly rotated the peg by the tube's opening as I squeezed. It laid a bead along the bottom of the peg. Then I placed the peg into the grooved area, pushed down gently and gave it a twist to help seat it. After the first few, it became second nature. Nothing to it - - you'll do fine!

George P.

[FellowCollector]

Thank you Brad and George for your helpful advice! The reproduction pegs I will be getting are 1 ⅝" diameter which I had assumed was the standard diameter for the original pegs in most cylinder cabinets. So I decided to go to a Lowe's we have out here and while there I asked to see a 1 ⅝" hole saw just in case I needed one. I had the presence of mind to bring along one of the drawer bottoms to show the Lowe's employee exactly what I might need the hole saw for. At the time I had only done a very quick measurement across one of the circular holes and it looked to be 1 ⅝". My concern was that I was certain I only wanted the hole saw without the drill arbor since I did not want or need a pilot hole (from the drill) to be made in the center of every peg hole. Anyway, the employee found just the hole saw in 1 ⅝" and then I said "Well, how will this attach to the chuck on the drill press?". Ummm....she did not know...and a few other Lowe's employees came around to help but there seemed to be no arbor that did not also have the drill included. I was ready to say thank you anyway and walk away when the employee said well let's open this 1 ⅝" hole saw and see if will it will fit the holes you have here. Oh boy...it turns out that the circular peg holes on my cabinet are apparently 1 11/16". What to do...what to do... I still have to clean out the old dried up hide glue though. So maybe I will use George's technique of using the jeweler's screwdriver even though it may take a long time. And then I will need to get a 1 ⅝" hole saw without a drill arbor to make the new holes and centered somehow over the existing old holes. I really would like to retain the existing drawer bottoms with their original hole configuration over simply starting fresh on the reverse side of the drawer bottoms.

Thanks again and I'll keep you posted.
- Doug

[Curt A]

I am in the process of making shelves for my Herzog cylinder cabinet and found the same problem that you did. Hole saws that are of a preset size will not work for the diameter of replacement pegs as you discovered. I found that an adjustable hole saw, like the one on this eBay link will work for the job:
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/adjustable-hole-saw

Your question regarding the pilot hole dril is easy... just remove it. However, that means that you have to use a drill press and set the depth gauge so that the saw will not cut totally through... you cannot use a hand drill to accomplish this.

I have also made a template for printing the peg numbers on a laser printer, instead of hand stamping each one. If you or anyone else would like a copy, please PM me or email me - vinyl(dot)visions(at)live(dot)com
I have a template for all 147 pegs in a Herzog cabinet or a set of 12 that I use in a cylinder box, which originally had 36 per side, but divided into three sections of 12...

After printing them, I used an EK Tools hole punch - 1 ½" from Hobby Lobby to easily punch them out.
http://www.eksuccessbrands.com/ektools/ ... -31001.htm

Hope this helps...

[Curt A]

Here is a pic of what the cob labels look like. The original design was scanned from a cob in a cylinder box that had an incomplete set of numbers...

[FellowCollector]

Curt,

Awesome replies! Thanks very much for the helpful links and peg numbered image. I am definitely going to try the adjustable hole saw and I would surely be interested in the numbering images. Ideally, I am needing 8 sets of 1 through 36 numbers since I have 8 drawers with (when I am done) 36 pegs each - so whatever you might have that's close would be great. The hole punch will be great as well and we have a Hobby Lobby not far away.

- Doug

[Brad]

Doug,

I would not worry about the center hole, you won't see it because it is covered by the peg.

I would be leery about using the adjustable hole saw. It is not a saw, it is more of a scribe/gouge. I would not expect a smooth edge finish and you may find that is splinters and splits the plywood veneer. You will also face 2 other challenges: 1 - Getting the new "hole" perfectly centered over the old "hole" and, 2 - Keeping the plywood shelf securely held under the drill press arbor.

I also would NOT try and drill a circular grove with a hole saw with no center arbor bit. You will find that the hole saw will not contact the plywood evenly and attempt to "walk" around resulting in a non uniform/non round hole (Think of a spinning coin that is near the end of its spin cycle - it is almost horizontal but it is only contacting the surface at one point along the edge at a time.) If you don't believe me, try it on some scrap wood first.

Check out the pictures of the shelves I built for my restoral here: http://picasaweb.google.com/10676380181 ... 1dRDRATZFg I obtained the new pegs from Phonophan. I don't remember the exact diameter, but I used a standard size Forstner bit in the drill press into center holes I drilled from a template. The pegs fit very cleanly in these holes and with the glue in a bowl trick you get a very uniform glue line.

My recommendation is if you need to change the diameter, do so with a forstner bit. The challenge will be locating the exact center of each existing hole.

As for the cylinder numbers. I chose to hand stamp mine as this is what Herzog did. The laser printed ones Curt has look nice, but the tops of the pegs are not flat and cutting the printed ones out in a perfect uniform circle and gluing them to the domed tops may not give you a clean look. (Just my opinion )

Keep the pictures coming.

[Bob E.]

I wonder if the judicious application of a heat-gun would soften the glue enough to make scooping out the circular trenches easier. You might want to try chipping out and heating some samples of the glue (away from the drawer bottoms) to see how it reacts to heat. If it gets soft, you might be more willing to take the manual scooping-out-the-rout route!

--Bob

[FellowCollector]

I would be leery about using the adjustable hole saw.

Brad,

Thanks for your reply of concern and help. I had wondered about the adjustable hole saw for my particular application as well. I've not yet purchased one. The pricing certainly seems reasonable but I began to wonder about those 2 cutters revolving at (relative) high speed. I have no doubt that it worked well for Curt and in no way am I implying any discredit for his valued input and help. I guess I would prefer to see one in actual use to determine whether it might work well for my particular application.

I had also thought about that drill pilot hole being hidden by the peg itself once it is in place. But I am trying my best to retain the originality of the drawer bottoms...

Which begs the question: "How in the world were these circular peg holes (that have no drill pilot hole) done originally?" Any ideas? Anyone?

I have also included another picture of one of my drawer bottoms that, unfortunately, adds even more difficulty to my project. Remember my comment:

all of the original cylinders pegs removed - and with very little apparent reverence, I might add, for the drawer bottom boards.

Now, granted, this sort of damage is only present on a couple of the drawer bottoms. But I am beginning to think it may be a whole lot easier to simply replace the bottom boards that have this sort of damage. What do you think?

I'm probably one of the most passionate defenders of maintaining originality at all costs. But I don't feel it is possible now with a couple of bottoms having this inexcusable damage by a prior owner. And, if I replace 2 bottoms should I replace all of them for consistency sake? All else on the cabinets is excellent original. Decisions...decisions...

And thank you Bob E. for your helpful idea of using a heat gun to soften the hide glue. Definitely worth a try.

- Doug