BA2104 Stars & Stripes Forever - Sousa's Band - Right speed?

[Valecnik]

The earlier version of this I uploaded to youtube (second video below) was recorded at 160rpm. Many people told me it was too fast. I recorded it again on the Triumph at ±152rpm. To me it seems closer to the correct speed, in addition to being a higher quality recording. What do you guys think about the speed?

[youtubehd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9JwOluh1uU[/youtubehd]


[youtubehd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCXFUqdu_KA[/youtubehd]

[52089]

This piece is usually played in E flat, which means the new video is correct.

[Valecnik]

This piece is usually played in E flat, which means the new video is correct.

Thank you! I'm sure you are correct but then... why would Edison record this at ±150???

[Lenoirstreetguy]

Which again goes to show that the speeds that any company suggested are usually just a guideline before 1932 or so...( and even then....) I have a couple of diamond discs which don't play in the correct ...or stated ...key at 80 rpm. Edison
was usually pretty good by that point but not always. And Amberols in general are usually pretty close to 160, except when they aren't: like this!
And did you note that the pitch of that cylinder rises towards the end? This means that the Edison engineer slowed the cutter down when he thought he might run out of space at the end.
Jim

[52089]

This piece is usually played in E flat, which means the new video is correct.

Thank you! I'm sure you are correct but then... why would Edison record this at ±150???

Well that's an interesting puzzle considering that this one is directly recorded. I've heard dubs that vary wildly from the original disc, but that wouldn't explain this one. Perhaps there are multiple takes recorded at different speeds and/or keys?

[VintageTechnologies]

This piece is usually played in E flat, which means the new video is correct.

Thank you! I'm sure you are correct but then... why would Edison record this at ±150???

Perhaps there are multiple takes recorded at different speeds and/or keys?

I rather doubt multiple takes were recorded in different keys. A band that I play in plays the "Stars and Stripes Forever" every year, so I know the music. The scoring is a stinker enough for some sections to play, even in a key that minimizes the number of sharps or flats. Transposing it to another key would increase the misery for the poor musicians!

As just an average bandsman, I really admire the technical proficiency of those old time musicians. If you want to hear the best, listen to Sousa's band, the French Republican Guards, or the Johann Strauss orchestra.

[Valecnik]

I Wonder if they slowed it down just to squeeze the whole composition onto the cylinder? You can even see in the video if you have a good monitor that the recording uses the entire surface and, at 150, it lasts for about 5 min.

[Valecnik]

UPMG Publishing thinks they own this recording. Appeal in process...

[Henry]

The second recording is too fast, and in the wrong key---closer to E major than Eb.

The first recording is closer to correct march tempo (120 beats per minute), and close to Eb (actually about a quarter tone low, shading down towards D). Overall, no. 1 is the winner.

Keep in mind that so-called "standard" tuning (a'=440Hz) was not introduced until sometime after the Sousa Band made most of its recordings. Eb is the key of this march as printed.

I don't believe that Sousa would ever have conducted a march as fast as example 2, and band pieces are almost never in a key like E major (4 sharps). Eb major has three flats, a typical band key. OTOH, orchestral versions of Sousa marches are often transposed to sharp keys, which benefits the strings; in the case of "The Stars and Stripes Forever" (note the "The"---it's part of the title), down a half step to D major (two sharps) rather than up a half step to E major. I've played both versions, and those are the correct keys (Eb for band, D for orchestra).

Keep in mind that Sousa only infrequently conducted recordings of his band, leaving that task to other band members such as Herbert L. Clarke, Arthur Pryor, or Walter Rogers (IIRC).

The complete Sousa Band recordings of Sousa marches have been transferred to CD and are available from Crystal Records.

[Valecnik]

Thank you Henry. You confirm, as others have commented that this particular cylinder, for whatever reason, needs to run more slowly, probably around 152rpm to be heard as the band played it. I highly doubt anyone back then was tweaking their speed control, nor would there have been any communication from the factory that it needed to be done. I guess the assumption by all was "close enough" is okay.