Victrola VV-XII - Value in Less than Optimal Condition?

[CDBPDX]

Just came across a Victrola XII c.1910 currently in the possession of the original family. It has some issues - the gold Exhibition reproducer needs a rebuild and the spring doesn't work, plus the cabinet has the usual scuffs, scratches, and scraps but no real damage. I offered $200 but they weren't convinced that was a good price since someone told them this was a pretty rare machine (I did). Is $200 a lowball offer? Should I offer more in this condition?

Also, what would one of these be worth with the mechanical stuff fixed up and the cabinet cleaned, oiled, and waxed? Should I spend the $$$ and the time to get it up and running again or wait for another at a better price? Haven't actually seen many of these being offered at any price...

Thanks! CDB

[Jerry B.]

As you probably know, the XII was Victor's first table model Victrola and it sold for more than the Vic VI. It was made for roughly one year in two styles. The photos show the second style. I think it is a historic Victrola. Your photos show a machine that needs a good cleaning and it should be presentable or better. The gold parts would benefit from an ammonia bath. I think you could up your offer considerably and still have good value. Personally, I'd offer up to $400. Others? Jerry Blais

[FloridaClay]

$200 is definitely way low-ball. Total production was only 4,912. LFTD shows prices for an example in good original condition in the $900 to $1,500 range. Of course that was written when the market was stronger than it is now.

Clay

[long_island_phono]

I think $200.00 is very reasonable considering the overall condition of the machine. There is at least one missing top-plate screw, significant wear to the turntable felt and what looks like a good amount of wear to the tonearm. While I am not expertly knowledgeable about this particular model, it appears that the needle cup provided is incorrect.

It should be noted that one of these early 12's just sold for around $350.00 on Ebay in much better shape:

eBay Item #181204567112


You have a lot of work to do in order to bring back the machine to the best shape it can be in considering the grime and wear. It appears that people are asking around a grand at shows for a nice example but who knows if that is the actual selling price. A more reasonable value for a clean machine might be $850.00? Whatever someone will pay, really.

I am off the opinion that value decreases exponentially when it comes to condition issues, save for the exceedingly rare stuff. Machines are a passion and there is a lot of time and effort, not to mention knowledge, that goes on with restoration and preservation work. Is it unreasonable to think that one's time, effort, and knowledge shouldn't come free?

[FloridaClay]

It should be noted that one of these early 12's just sold for around $350.00 on Ebay in much better shape:

eBay Item #181204567112

Ummm, this one appears to be an XI, not a XII, as one of the commenters pointed out to the seller.

Clay

[long_island_phono]

I didn't catch that! Thank you for the correction.

[rizbone]

I paid about $600 for my XVII, in slightly better shape at auction. I think $200 is a little low. IF I didn't own one already I would have no problem paying that again.

[Phonofreak]

Like the other posters said, $200.00 is very low. The cleanup work is very minimal. It should clean up nice. Instead of making an offer, ask the owner how much they want for it. They usually have a price in their minds. If the price is too high, then wheel and deal. The max I would pay for that machine is $700.00. It's a very rare and historical machine as Jerry B. said.
Harvey Kravitz

[CDBPDX]

...While I am not expertly knowledgeable about this particular model, it appears that the needle cup provided is incorrect....

Good point. It is not a needle cup, but something else entirely, though I don't know what. Any ideas??

[brianu]

200 is very cheap for a XII, even in less than perfect condition. you could spend more than twice that and still more than double your money after you clean it up. I'm sure you already do, but if you don't (especially if you have a store), you should really try to closely follow the completed sales at auctions and keep track of what other dealers are selling things for online and at shows - that's all that anyone else is really basing their price estimates on. and if you don't have them already, the baumbach and fabrizio/paul books would be invaluable (and would have, for example, immediately clarified any confusion over the use of three-spring motors in VV-XVI's).