Collecting~ Is it a passion that retains it's "worth"?

[LadyHawke]

Hi everyone!
I am thankful to be here as a new member! I have several machines which I have purchased due to an, "emotional" attraction, which I adore, Victor Victrola's, which I like best. Now, the question which "looms" in the side of my brain that is practical, asks this question.

Do you collect in numbers, (more than a few), knowing that there is no "safety net" for resale in the market, in the near or distant future? Or do you just stay comfortable in the "emotional" zone, which matches your individual likes, knowing you may not have the "option" to sell again for the same? I know~ don't collect more than you can afford, but what I am asking here, where are they really headed? What is the pulse of the machines, "worth".

What do you think the market for collectors will really be in near and distant future? I realize there will be a small market of high end collectors.

My thoughts are based on this: muscle cars are important to those who lived with them. After 20 years, the older collectors die out, new kids and youth become adults and the attraction is dwindled down to auto enthusiasts, of a very small percentile.

Collectors I have dealt with, and those I met at the shows, (to me), overall, represent an older, (late 40-50s and up) collector. This is like the baby boomers coming through with their eyes fixed on what they like. A friend of mine stated, there is not going to be anyone who wants to buy or sell like there is now, in the next 5-10 years. I don't want a model-T, or a muscle car. There are very few young collectors that I have met. I know we collect with the love we have in our hearts, but it costs to do so!

Is this collector field viable as a "holding value", when time moves forward, there appears to be less people or opportunity to sell for what you are paying for them? I know there are so many factors that could be injected here, but we buy and sell too!

I really do appreciate your thoughts here! I think you understand the "overall" picture I am asking on where the Victor Victrola stands as a collectible in a stream of life, value.

Thanks so much!

[phononut]

Hi There
You share some interesting views and perspectives here! In regards to the idea of purchasing machines for value/emotional attachment, I always buy my machines with emotional attraction however I purchase them with an eye for prices and values, as to ensure that I am getting a good deal.

I am 15 years old, a very passionate collector of antique phonographs and gramophones as well as other antiques. I started off when I was 12 years old saving up my pennies and examining the internet learning about antique phonographs. My first machine was an Amberola 30, complete with missing grille, and all the peeling veneer you could imagine. Since there I continually have my eye on "upgrading" my collection, by restoring and selling everyday machines to sell to the average public through Kjiji, repairing machines for others and patiently saving up. I now have a beautiful Victrola XVI, AT Graphophone, Tabletop Grafonola, 2 Amberola 30's, a couple portables, Edison DD A-100, Jacobean Revival Pathé floor model, as well as a recently sold and restored Aeolian Vocalion Graduola.

Personally I see an incredibly bright future for our hobby, certainly one that I am dedicated to. What worries me is the insane prices that I see machines sell for on Ebay. All the external horn machines are virtually unattainable for a reasonable price. As well it seems I cannot find a machine that hasn’t been meddled with or "restored" by some uneducated individual. More and more machine show up ruined by people who believe they are saving them.

Just my two cents
Brad

[phonogfp]

I'll offer a perspective that compliments Brad's, although from the other end of the spectrum. I started collecting antique phonographs & records when I was 13. That was 46 years ago. I've seen short cycles come and go, and I believe we're currently in a larger, slower cycle. Back in the 70s and 80s, antiques in general were popular, and the prices for many antique phonographs were rising steadily. I believe this reflected the demand for them from "non-collectors." Back in 1968 when I bought my first Edison Standard with a decorated flower horn, I paid the going rate in the antique shop: $75. Antiques were hot then. By 1972 - 75 when I was doing a lot of local searching for phonographs, a decent Edison Standard or Home with a large flower horn was commanding about $225. By the mid-80s, they were bringing about $350. Then in the late 80s/early 90s, society decided that antiques weren't quite so cool anymore. This has been a general trend for about 20 years now and Edison Standards and Homes have appreciated very little. I believe that antiques in general will enjoy a resurgence again, but I couldn't hazard a guess. When that happens, I expect to see a rise in antique phonograph prices again.

However, like young Brad, I don't buy something unless I like it, or it's so cheap that I can make a few dollars on it. (More than once I've bought something for resale only to find it has wandered into my collection like a lost puppy.) I hope for my wife and children's sake that my phonographs will have retained/gained value when I'm through with them, but they weren't bought as an investment. They've kept me sane (almost) for many years.

George P.

[Jerry B.]

It's possible to enjoy the hobby and it will retain its worth if you purchase wisely. It's very important to educate yourself in the hobby. This Forum is a great place to start. Here, you see the complete range of collectors from new to old (like George ). You'l also see a wide range of topics so be sure to use the search feature. The books available to todays collectors are amazing. Buy some! I'd also suggest joining the Antique Phonograph Society. It's an international club that you'll love and it's only $30 a year including a wonderful quarterly publication. I'd also recommend being active with other collectors in your local area. A good friend's opinion is always a valuable source of ideas and information. My last suggestion is to buy only what you really like and always buy the best quality you can afford. OK, that was two suggestions!

Happy Collecting,
Jerry Blais (slightly older than George )

[VintageTechnologies]

I bought my first phonograph (a Victor table model) when I was 12. That was 48 years ago, so I do have a long-term perspective. Prices for everything has gone up over the years, and I believe they will continue to rise. Phonographs don't pay dividends like blue chip stocks, but they do pay dividends of happiness.

Some early collectors probably did collect phonographs for personal nostalgia reasons, but these windup machines were antiques even when we were kids, so our collecting reasons are different -- we like them for what they are. I like the hardware, I like the software. With the Internet and websites like this one to stimulate interest, the hobby is probably more popular than ever. When I was young, I was pretty isolated from other collectors and chances for buying machines and records were very limited. Not any more! Even if the prices on eBay seem high, I know I save considerable money and time not trolling through every antique and junk shop across the country.

If value concerns you, then concentrate on the condition of what you buy, whether the item is "common" or "rare". Clean machines and clean records fetch higher prices. Leave a catalog to document what you buy for your wife or kids. You would be hard pressed to keep the estimated values current, but you could explain in that catalog the description of what makes each piece of your collection worthy of consideration when the item is put up for sale.

[Andersun]

Rare machines and non restored machines in excellent condition hold their value in the long run. There are ups and downs always. Don't forget that your investment is protected against the tax man which has added value.

[gramophone78]

One thing I have started to notice is all collectables are slowly climbing back up to pre-2007 prices. However, as already mentioned.....the good,rare items always hold their own.

[Tpapp54321]

I also am a young collector and when I was 10 I enherited a realley crappy Rivoli phonograph missing two legs and Peeling veneer and all sorts or other issues. But I loved it and that phonograph started the collecting for me and I still have my Rivoli and I'm going to probably keep it as is because that's the phonograph that started it all for me. I don't know if I'm so worried about the hobby of collecting phonographs Disappearing because although there are less there are still a decent amount of young collectors (or at least from what I've seen) that will keep on preserving these great machines.

[JerryVan]

I've always found that if you collect anything based on what it's worth, you will never truly enjoy the item. Now, if you're into reselling, that's a different story. It's also not collecting.

[Garret]

I'm 24 and started collecting when I was 12. In that time, I've bought, restored, and sold well over 25 different phonographs. The advice I can offer is this:

1. Buy the rarest phonographs and records you can afford in the best condition possible.
- Private sales, estate sales, and auctions are the best ways to get a deal.
2. Educate yourself to make sure that you are paying average or below average prices for your items, and that you know what you are buying.
3. Always evaluate the potential restoration cost of a machine being restored and it's potential restored value before buying.
4. Buy low, and sell or trade high.
5. Most importantly, collect what you like.

If you do the aforementioned, you will be the consummate dealing collector and have great fun at it, too! I started with a cheap little Columbia D-2 Grafonola tabletop phonograph, and I now have a small collection of rare phonographs and records that I really like and appreciate.

Is this a passion that retains its worth? If you ask me, considering this is how I spend some of my time, I emphatically say: "Yes!"