Refinishing a mahogany Pathé Actuelle

[marcapra]

I just purchased a mahogany Pathé Actuelle model J. It needs a new finish on the outside of the cabinet as it is badly alligatored. I have heard that refinishing mahogany is trickier that oak. Can anyone recommend some materials or techniques I should use? I have a DVD video showing how to refinish old radios. Would the advice given there work with the Actuelle?

[De Soto Frank]

I think part of this depends on what type finish was originally applied; by the time the Actuelle came along, many furniture makers were moving away from shellac & varnish, and using pyroxylin lacquer ( which could be sprayed in many light coats, dried quickly, and rubbed-out, to build-up a very deep gloss).

With shellac & varnish finishes, the stain is applied to the wood before the finish.

With lacquers, the stain was often combined with the finish, so stripping often removes the color.

The interior surfaces of the cabinet should offer good clues as to the color and surface of the original finish; most red or brown mahogany finishes of this era were glass-smooth "piano finishes"; to achieve this with a porous grain, such as mahogany, a filler must be applied, otherwise the coarse grain texture will be present in the final finish. (Visit any antique mall, and you should have no trouble find examples of this with 20th century repros of Federal period furniture that have been "refinished"... the result is not good.)

Someone here at TMF might be able to comment of the possibilities of "re-amalgamating" the finish on an Actuelle...

[marcapra]

Thanks Frank for your comments. I have already tried putting alcohol on the top of the lid. It did not dissolve the finish as if it were shellac, but produced a milky cloud. That might mean the finish is really lacquer which could be re-amalgamated with lacquer thinner, I think? Frank, I think your message was to not refinish, but re-amalgamate. I always thought that a lacquer finish did not alligator?

[mikejk]

I hesitate to offer an opinion on this, I am no expert on refinishing, but here it goes. A man that I have bought a couple of phono's from suggested a 50-50 mix of lacquer thinner and denatured alchohol rubbed in with fine steel wool or a lint free rag. The results of this can be seen in my posted pics of "Brunswick 120". I used this mixture on this cabinet which is alligatored, and it turned out very nice without stripping.

[soundgen]

Thanks Frank for your comments. I have already tried putting alcohol on the top of the lid. It did not dissolve the finish as if it were shellac, but produced a milky cloud. That might mean the finish is really lacquer which could be re-amalgamated with lacquer thinner, I think? Frank, I think your message was to not refinish, but re-amalgamate. I always thought that a lacquer finish did not alligator?

"Crocodiled" finishes are nearly always Shellac ! The white milky cloud is due to water either present in the alcohol you used , ( what alcohol did you use ) or the surface was damp / cold . shellac will bloom white if it is too cold , this can be rectified by a hair dryer ! Don't do this in an enclosed space though as it can explode !

I think the Rees? book on restoring gramophones shows some amazing restorations of crocodile finish , but I can't find my copy

The dyes that were used in the Shellac to colour the finish are available in the USA I think from APSCO

later finishes such as Cellulose don't crocodile but go very brittle and scratch very easily

if you could post some pictures of the finisi it would help identify what you have

A picture is worth a thousand words ! Always add pictures !

[larryh]

You need denatured alcohol to test to see if the finish is shellac.. Try a bit on the back of a leg or cabinet.. If its softens it up its shellac.. I have saved shellac finishes in several ways.. One if the finish isn't too rough you can use some fine black 300 sandpaper and gently work it down till the worst of the roughness is gone.. After than you have to clean it up well and then I use a one part shellac to 3 parts of denatured alcohol mix to coat the original finish. Its very thin so you need to if possible put the side your working flat.. Normally one coat will restore it but two might be necessary.. Once it is dried well for several days then you rub it down with whiting and baby oil using a felt pad to dip the whiting in.. that will remove the high shine and make the wood appear much richer.. After that a couple coats of wax will finish it off.

Second and only if I have to I have tried the denatured alcohol brushed over the old heavy rough finish. I find that to be rather difficult to get the old shellac to move smoothly though. When it dries it will most likely have ridges in the finish which will have to be sanded out.. After that you would proceed as the thinned shellac finish application above.. You can always touch up any nicks or worn corners with a bit of stain to give it a more finished effect.

I should have mentioned that you need very flexible and good brush to apply the shellac, other wise you won't get a smooth application.. its really something one should practice some before tackling a fine cabinet unless your used to applying shellac.

Larry

[marcapra]

Here are some pics of the Pathé Actuelle model J in question. Inside the lid you can still see the beauty of the original red mahogany piano finish:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a257/ ... c6ead7.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a257/ ... 0fb0ef.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a257/ ... df3617.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a257/ ... 0766aa.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a257/ ... 1d72c2.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a257/ ... cdbdb7.jpg

[gregbogantz]

If you are considering re-amalgamating the finish, the first thing you need to do is CLEAN it mightily. Most of what I see in your pictures is dirtiness. Any dirt left on the surface will get blended into the finish with the subsequent application of solvent. Then you'll have a splotchy, dirty mess. After a vigorous cleaning with Kotton Kleanser or GoJo (including some judicious use of fine 0000 grade steel wool soaked in the cleaner), you might just find that the alligatoring has been minimized enough that you won't want to refinish it at all.

[De Soto Frank]

I'll echo what Greg said about cleaning first... years of paste-wax and other polishes can hold lots of dirt and nicotine (if in a smoking household); a good cleaning with mineral spirits and 0000 steel wool will help knock the grunge off first...

[marcapra]

I bought some GoJo and steel wool 0000 and it does clean away the dirt and make it look better. But in no way does 0000 steel wool get rid of the alligatored finish. There are also parts of my finish on top of the lid where the finish coat has flaked off and the gaps go all the way down to the wood.