A good many folks think ill of Heineman motors. I suspect that this is because they only run in to the cheaper
models, which were used in so many bottom-of-the-line machines.
Heinemann came to the 'States in 1914, working as an agent for a Swiss firm (Palliard as I recall) as well as offering products of the German Exclsior-Werke. He believed, correctly as it turned out, that the American talking machine market was about to greatly expand with the expiration of the protection associated several of the industry's basic patents. When coming of the War in Europe interfered with his supply kines, he contracted for manufacture with the Garford company in ELyria.
This sdvertising supplement to the 11/15/24 issue of Talking Machine World makes an excellent guide to the basic motor products of the Heinemann organization:
Thanks for posting! This is the first time I've seen all of Heineman's offerings.
I think the reason so many people think ill of them goes back to the early days of collecting. When I first became interested in antique phonographs about 20 or so years ago, it seemed like the attitude was if it wasn't a Victor or Edison, it was junk. After looking at many machines on my own over the years, I know this is not the case. I also remember when most internal horn machines weren't even given a second look by many collectors.
In fact, I find many of the independent manufacturers' offerings during the WWI era boom very interesting. For example, the Ramos-Eubank phono I posted about a couple of weeks ago. The small company was located in Richmond, Va, and used Heineman motors in their phonos. They were apparently only in business for a few months in 1919 and could not have produced many phonos. To me, machines like this are a lot more interesting than just "another" VV-XI, which saw a production run of over 800,000.
The only gripe I have about two-spring Heineman motors is they tend to run a little noisy, even when they've been cleaned and lubed, but it's not to the point that it interferes with the sound of a record. I've never owned a machine with a 66, but it looks like a decent motor.
The #66 and #55 motors look very robust and strong, on the lines of Victor, B-wick, and Edison.
The smaller ( and cheaper ) "pillar & plate" motors, such as I have in my Pathéphone VII are not so inspiring. ( appears to be the "Flyer" motor at the bottom, judging from the brochure illustrations )
Perhaps I wouldn't be so down on them if I hadn't invested many hours and more than a few bucks in the Heinemann pillar & plate job in my Pathéphone, and the SOB still wont' play steady or pull it's way through a single 10" record (yes, I'm using new needles, and appropriate 1920's records.)
Thanks for sharing the brochure, Uncle Vanya - neat graphics, and interesting product line.
Last edited by De Soto Frank on Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
De Soto Frank wrote:Well, uh, let me say this about thaat...
Perhaps I wouldn't be so down on them if I hadn't invested many hours and more than a few bucks in the Heinemann pillar & plate job in my Pathéphone, and the SOB still wont' play steady or pull it's way through a single 10" record (yes, I'm using new needles, and appropriate 1920's records.)
If it were me, I would have swapped it out if I serviced it and it was still giving these kinds of problems. If it's not holding a steady speed, it's likely that the gears are shot. This can happen to any motor if the previous owners kept playing it without maintenance. Kind of like driving a car 50,000 miles without changing the oil. I've noticed that phonos I've found in impoverished areas tend to exhibit flaws like this more frequently either because the owners didn't have the money or the knowledge to maintain the motor. Worn out parts and improper "make-it-work" repairs have been especially common on phonos and radios I have found in the Appalachian states.
They wouldn't have been able to stay in business for as long as they did if they were supplying manufacturers with motors that weren't powerful enough to play through one 10" record.
Uncle Vanya wrote, "Heinemann came to the 'States in 1914, working as an agent for a Swiss firm (Palliard as I recall) as well as offering products of the German Excelsior-Werke."
Thank you for posting this interesting advertisement.
This is a curious inquiry, not a challenge. Where did you learn that Otto Heinemann was a Palliard agent when he came to the United States in 1914? I ask because I have not heard this before. I draw what I know about Heinemann from the four volume Lindstrom Project, edited by Pekka Gronow and Christiane Hofer. Citations are from Volume 1 unless noted otherwise.
Page 11 (author: Rainer Lotz): Carl Lindstrom was a Berlin-based machinist who began manufacturing film projectors to a company founded by merchants Max Strauss and Heinrich Zunz. These gentlemen, in turn, began distributing Lindstrom's new gramophone, which was modeled after Emile Berliner's. They eventually took over Lindstrom's business, sometime before 30 January, 1904, retaining Lindstrom's services as a phonograph designer. Lindstrom remained the technical director of the company until 1921 (page 16) and died 29 December, 1932 (page 11). This new company was called Carl Lindstrom G.b.m.H.,
Page 12 (author: Rainer Lotz): on June 20, 1906, Heinrich Zunz died after a year's illness. His position in the Managing Board was filled by his brother-in-law Otto Heinemann (note spelling). Heinemann already was serving as the managing director of "machine factory, metal foundry, and mechanics workshop Gustav Krebs & Company G.b.m.H., and the operations of Lindstrom and the Krebs Company were gradually merged.
Page 25 (author: Stephan Puille): effective January, 1908, Carl Lindstrom G.b.m.H. becomes Carl Lindstrom AG, a stock corporation. Straus and Heinemann between them are majority shareholders in Carl Lindstrom AG.
Volume 4, page 81 (author: Pekka Gronow): a September 1909 notice in an uncitied British periodical states, "Carl Lindstrom AG Inc. and American branch of its business in Yonkers, New York State as the Carl Lindstrom company. One of the Berlin directors, Otto Heinemann, becoming one of the American branch's three directors [sic]."
Page 43 (author: Pekka Gronow): Britain declares war on Germany in August 1914, and late in 1914, Otto Heinemann, described here as "a former director of Lindstrom," left Germany for the USA, opening the Otto Heineman [note Anglicized spelling] Phonograph Company in New York on December 5, 1914. "The connection with Lindstrom is not clear.… It is certain that Lindstrom was not directly an owner of the [Otto Heineman Phonograph] company, as it [Lindstrom] would have lost it when the USA declared war on Germany in April 1917." In 1918, Otto Heineman Phonograph Company begins making vertically cut recordings [to be played with a steel needle, not a sapphire] in New York.* By 1919, they had switched to lateral cut recordings, and changed their name to the General Phonograph Corporation. The latter company signed an agreement with Lindstrom on November 23, 1921, making General Phonograph Co. Lindstrom's exclusive representative in the USA, Canada, Mexico, and Cuba. Also after the war, Heinemann changed his name to Heineman and became a naturalized US citizen.
Volume 2, page 118 (author: Pekka Gronow): "It would be important to know the motives behind Heinemann's move to America, who were the financial backers of the American company, and the exact provisions of the agreement between General Phonograph and Lindstrom. It would also be interesting to know more about Heinemann's activities after he left the OKeh Co."
So what I learned is that Heinemann was a Lindstrom director from 1906 to at least 1909, was a "former director" by 1914, but retained close ties to Lindstrom after World War I. (I have never read anything about what happened to him after Columbia purchased General Phonograph.) So I would be interested to know the source of your statement about Heinemann's business ties when he arrived in the USA.
Well, he appears to have crossed in '07, '10, '13, '14, '19, '20, '21, '23 and '24. In 1907 his passage was Second Class, otherwise he was in First class. He appears to have had some involvement with International and the "True-Tone" line of phonograph sundries (all German made articles, mostly manufactured by firms with a Lindstrom connection) which were offered to the trade beginning in 1907.
The Adolf Heinemann Company of 45 Broadway, New York had been advertising Lindstrom motors since 1911. Otto is mentioned in connection with this firm as early as 1913. IN early 1916 there was a consignment of Palliard sundries, shipped from Trieste in a Spanish bottom which was claimed by Heinemann, perhaps as a replacement for articles made impossible to get by the War. At this time the Garford Motor works had announced their new contract for talking machine motors but production had presumably not got up to speed. In June, 1915, the 45 Broadway address is listed as being occupied by "Carl Lindstrom A. G." rather than by "A. Heinemann & Co." At this time the firm is advertsing: "Shipments being received regularly from St. Croix, Switzerland". By September, we have the firm listed as "Otto Heinemann and Compmay", offering "The Motor Of Quality", "Six different styles playing from one to eight records with one winding."
Thank you, this is fascinating information. I had no idea Heinemann had traveled the USA so many times before 1914. Is this information in Talking Machine World?
victorIIvictor wrote:Thank you, this is fascinating information. I had no idea Heinemann had traveled the USA so many times before 1914. Is this information in Talking Machine World?
Many thanks for your reply, Mark
No, Immigration records, ship manifests.
Some of the later information that I have about Garford/General Industries comes from local (Elyria) newspaper coverage. Other stuff came from the GI records which were stored in before they were purged afther the LBO which sealed the doom of the firm in the 1980's.
I have the Heineman 5001P in my Magnola Talking Machine, it is a double spring motor but has the speed regulator arm that pulls down and is slid through the speed control.
I think the P5001 was the earlier motor, than those featured in the catalog. My question is, I am wondering if I can find a Heineman Model 66, and install it in my machine. I am wondering if everything would line up (crank hole and holes in motor board).
It would be nice to have a more robust 3 spring motor.
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