Unknown Gramophone

[USlakeside]

I found this recently. It definitely has the wrong tone arm (at least the reproducer end). The back bracket appears to be Pathé, as does the (not pictured yet) horn. But there are no extra drill holes. However, the case does not seem Pathé to me but the bracket fits very smoothly. I think there are legit parts to this piece, but I don't know which. My guess is the case is original with some alterations, possibly the motor board? I haven't opened it up to see the motor. Any info? Thanks!

[US PHONO]

Back bracket is Pathé, as you say, tone arm is wrong. You may find the motor is from a suitcase machine. Speed control looks too modern for a horned machine.

[USlakeside]

I agree. I do think the end that connects to the bracket of the tone arm may be right, because the fitting is pretty perfect, but its certainly suspect. Complete frankenphone? The case is interesting, I was hoping someone would recognize. The bracket fits perfectly, with no evidence of altered holes. So I wonder if it could have been correct? It just doesn't look or have the quality of Pathé case typically does.

[Phonofreak]

The arm looks like something from a portable or later a machine. I don't think horned machines had a swan-like arm.
Harvey Kravitz

[Steve]

It's a Frankenphone without a doubt!

Do you want to sell the Pathé elbow that's with it? I currently need one of these "tall" Pathé elbows!

[USlakeside]

Steve, possibly, but I'm not 100% sure its a Pathé elbow. considering I found this with a few other machines, all with the wrong parts put here and there. I have been sorting out the pile, and this elbow first perfectly on my Thorens machine. And looking at the illustrations posted in that threat (simple Thorens Gramophone), it may be correct? Forgive the nighttime photo.

[gramophone78]

Although I could always be wrong.......that elbow does not look Swiss. It would also have a inner pin to lock the horn in place. I have no idea what a Pathé elbow should look like.

Hope this helps.

[USlakeside]

Gramophone78 it is a threaded elbow. Is this definitely impossible? It looks really nice like this!

[gramophone78]

Gramophone78 it is a threaded elbow. Is this definitely impossible? It looks really nice like this!

As I wrote......I could be very wrong. However, of all the Swiss elbows I have seen (by major makers), your elbow does not appear to be Swiss.
That said, if another member knows more than I.....please chime in.

There was a threaded elbow made for early Swiss (large) models. However, they are very large and constructed very different to yours. They are three piece. The collar (threaded) is brass (nickel plated) and the elbow body is steel and has a steel sleeve that goes inside the bottom opening of the elbow. This leaves a bead ring around the bottom. All three parts are soldered together. These elbows are very rare. The bottom opening is 5.5cm.

The other (mentioned before) is slightly smaller and made from two piece (center seam) brass nickel plated. There is a locking pin inside for the horn. These are not too easy to find either. The bottom opening is 4.5cm.

The last type I posted in another thread. Made from two piece steel (center seam) and designed to fit "into" the back brackets. I believe these were for the smaller models. This elbow also has a inner lock pin for the horn.

**Please note**..... both elbows with these pins have the same size opening for the horn.

A Pathé collector will be able to spot whether or not your elbow is in fact Pathé. I'm sure that Steve will know. As I stated before.....I have no idea.

[gramophone78]

USlakside, just an up-date. A good friend (European collector) has confirmed with me that your elbow and back bracket are indeed "Pathé" on that machine. He further stated the arm was from a portable. However, we knew this.

Steve is therefore correct (not that I doubted him.. ).

That clears this up.