Advice on BF

[Lucius1958]

I just stumbled upon a Columbia BF in a local shop; the motor appears to be intact, and the crank holds tension. The finish is fairly good, but there are a couple of issues:

. The case is missing one corner column, and the moulding on the front of the lid (a simple cove moulding).

. The Lyric reproducer is missing the stylus: some previous amateur had replaced it with what appears to be a bent pin. How difficult is it to replace the stylus? (stylus bar is still there).

Seller has tagged it at $495: I have not yet asked if he can make a better offer.

Considering the work to be done, is this a good deal?

Bill

[flashpanblue]

Hi Bill,
The Columbia BF and it's little brother the BE are two of my favorite machines. Their ornate oak cabinets with nickeled bed plates and colorful flower decals look very nice indeed! I think the average price for a complete Columbia BF in nice condition should be around $600.00 The one you have found is priced at $495.00. It would bother me to buy a machine with missing corner and lid moulding if the price discount was only $100.00. It may be more difficult to replace the missing moulding and get it to match than you think. I would not want to pay more than $350/$375.00 for this machine. Plus the new stylus will also cost you $30 or so. Another consideration would be if the antique store charges tax on top of the price.
Pete

[Lucius1958]

Hi Bill,
The Columbia BF and it's little brother the BE are two of my favorite machines. Their ornate oak cabinets with nickeled bed plates and colorful flower decals look very nice indeed! I think the average price for a complete Columbia BF in nice condition should be around $600.00 The one you have found is priced at $495.00. It would bother me to buy a machine with missing corner and lid moulding if the price discount was only $100.00. It may be more difficult to replace the missing moulding and get it to match than you think. I would not want to pay more than $350/$375.00 for this machine. Plus the new stylus will also cost you $30 or so. Another consideration would be if the antique store charges tax on top of the price.
Pete

Thanks! I'll take that up with the seller…

There is one detail that I have not mentioned: the machine bears a late-style, "COLUMBIA GRAPHOPHONE" decal. According to Hazelcorn, this was found on some late BFTs. I regret not having looked at the rear of the cabinet for bolt holes.

If I find that this was originally a BFT, would that change the equation? Although I would have to find a back bracket, tone arm, elbow and horn (I could temporarily use the horn from my BI, and I think the bracket and elbow should be identical with the disc models), the increased rarity of the BFT might figure into the deal.

Opinions?

Bill

[long_island_phono]

Bill,

The "Columbia Graphophone" decal was not only featured on the bracketed machines but also the base models. I had a late production BF with that decal that I sold a few months ago, no bracket holes in the back. It appears most late machines had this updated decal.

Regarding price I'll throw in my 'two cents.' I think Pete's value assessment is pretty spot-on for a decent BF, in my opinion, however there has been no mention of a horn in the discussion. Aside from the stylus, without a horn the machine is little more than decoration, so that is a factor to consider. Based on your description of the BF I would offer much less than Pete's top end, in cash of course, detailing the highlights but making a point to stress that not only is the stylus incorrect rendering the machine unplayable, but there is no horn to demonstrate a cylinder if that could be accomplished safely.

The loss of original moulding is no joke, either. I look at value from an exponential perspective and I think the selling price should reflect not only the state of preservation but the time involved in fixing what's wrong, otherwise you have a parts machine. You are the enthusiast who will dutifully bring the BF back to playing condition, so you owe it to yourself to factor that into consideration when discussing what to pay. Though, that might not be something to discuss with the person at the antique shop! Again, just my point of view but I imagine other's might feel the same as well.


-Jake

[Lucius1958]

Certainly, if it is a regular BF, I had planned on sharing the horn that I already use with my AT.

Once again, I'll see if I can dicker with the seller.

Bill

[Phonofreak]

There are a few things to look for on the BF. Some of the later ones had a 2/4 min attachment. How you can tell is there is a little knob on the left side with a small pointer. If that feature is present, get the machine. 2/4 min Columbia machines are scarce and desirable among collectors. Like what was said before, check the back of the case for holes for a back bracket. If that's the case, then it would be a BFT. If so, there will be challenge for the bracket. The bracket for a Columbia cylinder machine is NOT the same as a disk machine. The cylinder bracket is higher that a disk bracket. The machine will bind up, and not work properly. The arm, elbow and clips will work though. If this is a straight 2 min, machine, I wouldn't offer more that $300.00. You will have to have a wood worker make the lid molding and column, unless you find an extra case that is either better, or utilizing the parts. As mentioned before, the reproducer will need rebuilding and the stylus replaced. That can be expensive, too. I figure getting this machine up to par, figure at least $200.00, plus if you offer and get the machine for $300.00. It's worth a try. These machine come up for sale very often.
Harvey Kravitz

[Lucius1958]

Well:

I just picked up the BF for $375+tax: not too bad a deal.

Seller has confirmed that the motor runs; now for the restoration!

Here are the 'Before' photos

:

[Lucius1958]

Now a couple of close-ups of the reproducer:

Photo on 2-22-14 at 4.38 PM.jpg (60.47 KiB) Viewed 1467 times

There's that bent-pin 'stylus'...

Photo on 2-22-14 at 4.39 PM.jpg (61.37 KiB) Viewed 1467 times

Now to work...

Bill

[De Soto Frank]

Doesn't look too bad, aside from that missing corner piece...


Over-all condition looks very respectable.

Good score, Bill !

[zenith82]

You did well for $375. Congratulations!