Can Indestructible Cylinder Record Celluloid be Moved?

[phono-farm]

I've got a few common Indestructible 2 and 4 minute records where the celluloid recording surface has slipped about ⅛ or ¼ inch off the inner core, so the inner core now sticks out that much at the beginning of the record, making the overall length of the record a bit longer than it originally was. Is there any method for pushing the celluloid covering back into its original position?

Thanks, Greg

[barnettrp21122]

I'd say no. What's happened is that the celluloid has shrunk enough to pull itself off the bottom end of the core. If you play these I'll bet they skip forward due to the shrinkage. This is the biggest problem with Indestructibles. Blue Amberols have plaster core issues, but seem to have survived better on the whole.
Bob

[Zwebie]

Greg,

The answer is Yes, and No.

My first picture shows Celluloid Shrinkage. I find this a lot on the Later Indestructibles which have thinner celluloid. The celluloid shrinks and moves up the core. There is no gap, and the core is tight with the top of the cylinder. These are the Indestructibles that usually skip when being played. THESE CYLINDERS CANNOT BE FIXED!

My second picture show a cylinder where the Celluloid has creeped up the core. I belive this happens to Early Indestructibles when they have experienced hot and cold, such as in an attic. The celluloid is thicker and as it moves up the core it creates a gap at the top of the cylinder. These are the Indestructibles that usually don't skip when being played. THESE CYLINDERS CAN BE FIXED!

The third picture shows the same cylinder from the second picture, after being fixed. What I do is set the base of the cylinder on a smooth hard surface, such as a counter or floor, then I place the heel of my palm on the title end of the cylinder and just press. The celluloid usually slides down evenly, but if the bottom metal ring doesn't look just right, you can tap the title end of the cylinder with a rubber mallet to even things up.

Belive it or not, I once replaced the rusted core of a hard to find title, with the core of a common title, and was able to save the cylinder by this method! What I did was to heat the celluloid in hot water before stretching it over the donor core.

I hope this helps, Bob S.

[VintageTechnologies]

I'd say no. What's happened is that the celluloid has shrunk enough to pull itself off the bottom end of the core. If you play these I'll bet they skip forward due to the shrinkage. This is the biggest problem with Indestructibles. Blue Amberols have plaster core issues, but seem to have survived better on the whole.
Bob

It seems that all celluloid is prone to shink under the wrong circumstances (temperature and humidity the likely factors), but not always, and the manifestations can differ. I have never seen an Indestructible split from end to end, as I have seen with Everlasting and Edison cylinders; perhaps that is due to the core swelling, rather than the celluloid shrinking. The Edisons don't seem to skip due to lengthwise shrinkage as badly as the Indestructibles.

[Edisone]

I have never seen an Indestructible split from end to end, as I have seen with Everlasting and Edison cylinders; perhaps that is due to the core swelling, rather than the celluloid shrinking.

Everlasting used sheets of celluloid, formed into a cylinder & then pressed in a mold - that's why they can split end-to-end along the seam. Edison bought celluloid already in tube form; it must take a huge amount of pressure to split BAs!

[RefSeries]

British Lamberts and Imperial 6" also slip like this. Be very, very, careful with these as they split end to end quite easily, despite their being a single tube rather then a sheet a la Everlasting - I have learned the hard way that the best approach is to leave them alone and live with the slippage!

Keith

[phonojim]

Very interesting. I will keep this in mind but as long as mine play to the end, I will leave them alone. One thing I have done with Indestructibles is to remove the cardboard from a couple which had swollen from dampness and would no longer slip even half way on to the mandrel. Now they play quite well.

Jim

[phono-farm]

Thank you for all the suggestions. I just went through my two minute Indestructibles and was able to push three that had slipped up about ¼ inch back to almost their original position. I'll look at these again in a month to see if they slipped back. I've played all these and didn't notice any skipping due to shrinkage, but I think the problem is mostly just that the celluloid has moved, and has not shrunk much.

Greg

[RefSeries]

On an allied question, does anyone know how to remove plaster of paris from inside an 'indestructible' record? Many of my British Internationals are splitting in the box as they shrink over the plaster lining, and I also have a couple of good blue Amberols which would benefit from repair and relining. I have tried soaking them in water but plaster if paris is impervious to that. Mild vinegar solution has no effect, even after a week of soaking. Any ideas?

Keith

[VintageTechnologies]

I have never seen an Indestructible split from end to end, as I have seen with Everlasting and Edison cylinders; perhaps that is due to the core swelling, rather than the celluloid shrinking.

Everlasting used sheets of celluloid, formed into a cylinder & then pressed in a mold - that's why they can split end-to-end along the seam.

I am becoming gun-shy of Everlasting cylinders. This weekend I was entering titles into my computer of records that I have bought over the past year. I was horrified to discover that an Everlasting had split from end-to-end since I had purchased and played it. Worse, it was a good band title (Awakening of the Lion) in excellent condition. My house is climate controlled and environmentally stable - this should not have happened. After over one hundred years, the darned thing just cuts loose. What next?