Are the Edisonic motors different than the others?

[PeterF]

Reposting with a more-descriptive header.

My Schubert has a shock proof gov on it, which is mighty cool. And I've always planned to add LP capability to the thing, from a spare LP console unit I will probably part out (anybody want the cabinet?). LP just won't work without two springs, but Schubert only has a single spring. The DD motors I'm most used to working on easily accept a second spring barrel...but crazy Schubert's motor seems different, and so I was looking at that today and wonder:

Were the Edisonic motors different than the predecessors, such that they couldn't interchange parts? Was there a totally different motor for Beethoven, with two springs? Am I going nuts, or is there something I'm missing about adding a second spring barrel to Schubert's motor?

The bedplate and horn shaft mounting points are identical, so I can just drop the LP console's motor right in, but that's less original. Plus it's super fun to install the LP attachment using the original instructions (reproductions are readily available).

I'll haul out the various motors I've got lying around over the weekend and puzzle it out, but in the meantime I'd enjoy hearing what the rest of you might already know. Thanks.

[52089]

Frow says the Edisonic motor is a "refinement" of the previous DD motor, so yes, it's different. I don't own one myself (yet...), so I can't comment on your specific questions, except to speculate as follows:

1) Could the spring barrel sizes be different on the Edisonic machines as opposed to the earlier ones?, and

2) I'm assuming you know (but in case you or someone else reading this didn't), the piece that accepts the crank and holds the spring(s) in place is different on single and double spring motors. The typical single spring version is a few inches long and is held in place with 4 bolts. The double spring version is much shorter and only uses 2 bolts.

Hope this helps.

Kevin

[PeterF]

Ahhh - that may be the solution. I'd have to also swap out the 4-bolt bit on the Edisonic for the 2-bolt part from the LP.

I'll put them both on the bench this weekend and do a side-by-side comparison. I'll also look hard at the differences in other components and see what "refinements" (other than the shock-proof governor itself) good ole George was referring to.

thanks!

[PeterF]

Well, here's the skinny on comparing the motors from an LP console and a single-spring Edisonic. They are essentially the same in every regard, including the so-called shockproof governor. The longer four-bolt winding shaft carrier interchanges with the shorter two-bolt version as described elsewhere, to allow a second spring to be added to the Edisonic.

But since the motorboards and mechanisms are identical, I decided to save myself some work by swapping the entire assemblies out rather than moving the LP attachment and second spring over to the Edisonic's original motor. Hush, purists, I'll keep the original Edisonic motor intact - and everything I did is 100% reversible. I'll just install it into the LP console cabinet, out in the garage.

One more note: speed adjustment on these late motors is a bear. There's an oddball nut attached to a cam arrangement and connected to a lever that positions the governor pads. To adjust the speed you need to crane your arm underneath the motorboard and get the tips of needlenose pliers (or a special tool you've made) into the nut's little slots. While it's playing. And oh, the horn is in the way. And it's probably a bit greasy.

I've got to find 7 rpm that way. The thing is rock steady at 73 rpm, which is fine if you're a ham radio operator but makes Billy Murray sound closer to Len Spencer. And I'm just not cool with that.

[PeterF]

Ok I got it up to 79.3, before the cam started to take the speed back down again. What an odd design. I wonder why they took the owner-adjustable speed control away at all.

FWIW, the speed adjustment is pretty easy on the Schubert, because the extended neck of the Edisonic horn puts the horn bell down lower and gives you clearance. So that was a fun little adventure, and now it sings like a bushy eyebrowed partially deaf elderly Ohioan carrying on a bromance with Henry Ford. Or something like that.

[PeterF]

Here are some pictures of the motors and their details.

[marcapra]

Peter, Great pics of the Edisonic motor! I just got my Beethoven Edisonic going and I clocked it at 88 rpm! Billy Murray sounds like Lily Pons! Can you tell me specifically what screw I turn to crank the speed down? Thanks, Marc.

[PeterF]

Look in the photo above, commented as "Edison LP motorboard detail" near the numeral 10 cast in the motorboard, and you'll see what looks like a washer with 4 small notches cut in its edge. That's it.

Carefully put the tips of a small pair of needlenose pliers into an opposing pair of the notches and squeeze and rotate...while a (junk) record is playing. Rotate clockwise to decrease speed. But if you go too far it will start increasing the speed again - it's on a cam that changes the location of the governor pads within only a certain range, up and down.

Please be very careful not to pinch yourself with the needlenoses, when it slips off while you are adjusting. And it will!

[52089]

Look in the photo above, commented as "Edison LP motorboard detail" near the numeral 10 cast in the motorboard, and you'll see what looks like a washer with 4 small notches cut in its edge. That's it.

Carefully put the tips of a small pair of needlenose pliers into an opposing pair of the notches and squeeze and rotate...while a (junk) record is playing. Rotate clockwise to decrease speed. But if you go too far it will start increasing the speed again - it's on a cam that changes the location of the governor pads within only a certain range, up and down.

Please be very careful not to pinch yourself with the needlenoses, when it slips off while you are adjusting. And it will!

You can also make adjustments to the speed by adjusting the governor end bearing shown in the same photo. Loosen the set screw on the top, loosen the retaining screw behind the bearing, then move the bearing out slightly, not more than 1/16" or so, making sure that the governor is still firmly held by both bearings. Then start the machine, slowly tightening the retaining screw until the desired speed (80) is achieved. Then tighten the set screw. Should be good for another 80 years

[marcapra]

Well, I went out and bought a couple of very small needle nose pliers to make the speed adjustment. First I tried to do it Peter's way, but all my pliers would do was slip off. Over and over again, they would just slip off. So I tried to do it the end bearing way and all I succeeded in doing was make the turntable stop turning. Now it won't turn, no matter what I do. What did I do wrong?