Latest Find Early Pooley VTLA with Earliest VTLA Trademark

[solophoneman]

I have never run across one of these real early flat top VTLA's before so I was really pleased to find this. The Best way I guess to show this one is with this Video. Found this recently in the Cellar of a home about 10 minutes from here. Note you can go to 2:30 mark of the video to see the First Victrola Trademark, that was only used on the earliest versions of the VTLA. Also notice the early round front key. It is a flat key, and is not shown Victor Data book. I would imagine that this key and lock set up were replaced early on with the more typcal key and lock version. It takes a seperate more common VTLA key to unlock the back of the cabinet to access the motor section. Note the early style lid control. It takes two hands to adjust the height.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3KdJCqusKY

[phonogfp]

What's the serial number of the machine?

George P.

[solophoneman]

1276 Do you happen to know the earliest known VTLA Serial number. At what number did they usually start a model sequence?

[phonogfp]

Victor serial numbering typically began at 500. I don't know the earliest known number, but I could swear I saw one with three digits.

Hey John Duffy - are you out there? This is your department!

George P.

[FloridaClay]

What a treasure to find!

Clay

[Ripduf1]

I am here!

OK, I had at one time 3 Flat tops where each of them had different design features, and I know that I did not have the earliest version that makes a total of 4 cabinet variations that I am aware of.

I am the current owner of serial number 798. While this is an early number - there had already been a significant cabinet change.

We can start with the image of my 798. This I consider as having most of the earliest features, visible here are 1. Two simple hinges holding the top secure 2. The lid stay is a single position “knee” design that also requires two hands to put up or down. 3. The cabinet detail is different when compared to the machine in the video which was the next style cabinet change in just a few short months. The area above the speaker doors is shorter in height hence the appearance of narrower ridges of carving. This is also where the biggest difference between my machine and say, serial number 501 is. The earliest version had a small needle drawer as part of the detail above the speaker doors. An image of this drawer is in F&P book Talking Machine Compendium on page 162. My 798 has already moved to needle holders in the turntable area. I do not know specifically what serial number that production change occurred. The Bob Johnson Collection has 583 and the drawer is still present, so mine just missed it. This covers styles 1 & 2.

The machine shown in the video and serial 1435 which I had owned, the following changes occurred 1. They moved to a piano hinge for the lid 2. The lid stay is a shark tooth (my term) design offering options for how much the lid could be left open. This represents the 3rd cabinet version.

The fourth and what I would think -the final version of Flat top. These are images of serial 2082 which use to be mine, the area above the speaker doors simplified to FLAT, just like the subsequent coffin topped VTLA and L doors. 2. Started using the early L door style decal 3. They started using conventional key and escutcheon for the lid, thumb latch for the rear hatch (no lock) which represents the fourth style just prior to coffin top machines.

Image 1 shows the three versions I had owned and the detail I refer to above.
Image 2 is 798 interior showing hinges, knee stay, carved detail and needle cups
Image 3 is 2082 interior showing more contemporary decal and evolving lid stay inparticular.

I hope this contributes to the thread! John Duffy

[phonogfp]

Thanks John. I knew you'd be able to add some detail to this discussion!

George P.

[solophoneman]

Thanks John, that kind of information about the variations of the earliest VTLA Flat tops is found no where else, and would only have come from someone who owned each different style. It is interesting to note, that the round key hole for the flat key lock is shown in the next to the last photo, and the key lock changes to the common style in the last photo. Do you happen to know with what style the earliest Trademark design, shown in my video changed to the new Style? Again, thanks for that great information.

[downsouth]

Nice machine. I have one also and the serial # is 1190. It has the same lid decal as yours and the round hole for the key which has four flat sides like a clock key. My key is listed in the Victor Data book though. It didn't come with the machine but it was listed on eBay a while back with some other various phonograph parts. I got lucky. I have a question concerning the motorboard not being attached to the machine. Is this common? It has to be held while winding it. I have heard of others with the same problem. Is this pretty common for this machine?

Wes

[Ripduf1]

Hi,
I do not know when the decal change occurred. I have never seen another serial number as high or above. While it might be interesting to know to the serial number when a change took place - that requires consecutive serial numbers and that can only happen by chance and/or serving notice to and complete cooperation of all current owners. I figure they just ran out of the original decals and started using the new design at the end of the flat top run.

I love Flat tops it is such an interesting cabinet shape. However when you use it you can quickly figure out why the change occured. It is not very friendly, there is no record shelf so if there is a record on the table and you remove it - where do you put it or where do you put the next record you want to play? Also the turntable is located down in the "box". It was a box to accomodate the tone arm. The coffin top was a stroke of design brilliance done in order to raise the turntable and still be able to close the lid.

It is still the most interesting Victrola cabinet in my opinion.

Wes, I believe the 2082 had two screws through the motor board to the frame like the coffin top VTLA's although I do not have the 2082 to confirm that. However I can confirm 798 and 1435 had the loose fitted motor boards.

John