Accidental Stereo

[Nat]

Just wanted to draw attention to a new Pristine release: http://www.pristineclassical.com/pasc422.html

Recordings by Stokowski, Kusevitski and Elgar which were in "accidental stereo" when two cutters were deployed at the same time. I've heard the Elgar before, but it sounds better here, but the others were new to me - very interesting, which an entire "Pathetique" wich drifts in an out of stereo - and all 1929 - 33.

[tinovanderzwan]

accidental stereo
this is a debate going since the 1980s at the time the big boys at emi and rca where denying it existed sayng the effect was mock stereo and even denying the existance of b-track copy's
anyway we now know a lot more about what went on in the studio's the usage of multiple recording machines was nothing new atall nor was it the exclusive practice for emi and rca companies like brunswick where also doing it
with the 1932 recording of duke ellinghton and his orchestra playing black and tan fantasy there where also 2 machines present cutting disc's at the same time
with these recordings each recording machine had its own unit so 2 mikes would record slightly different track since they where placed at different spots near the orchestra if you then synchronise the 2 recordings you get stereo basicaly naturaly occuring stereo
the stereo we listen to today is fabricated in the studio (the beatles and george martin where the pioneers on this)
basicaly modern stereo is 3 tracks not 2 first the 2 stereo tracks are made but if you listen to that your ears will flap from left to right not a very nice experience what they do is ad a mono track wich is much softer in volume than the 2 other tracks and bounce the 3 into 1 2track stereo recording
the dubbing makes the listening a lot easyer the flaping efect is cancelled out and only the stereo effects louder than the dubbed mono are heard

with this knowledge i can turn any mono recording into stereo by making 3 digital copy's tweaking 2 of them by digitally tweaking the sound spectrum of certain instruments while supressing others by doing this to both tracks with different instruments per track i can make the ear flapping effect by than dubbing the original mono into it at a lower volume natual sounding stereo is achieved

accidental stereo might be older still!
the pioneer days of the recording industry are well known to my fellow forumers
in the 1890s wax cylinders where recorded with multiple machines to make as much recordings at one time as was possible
sometimes a whole row or even a wall of phonographs where used
so in theory if you can find 2 cylinders from the same session recorded at opossite sides of the row or wall of phonographs and then synchronise them into 1 recording you again would achieve stereo

if anybody out there has 2 identical titles on same make cyl found in the same sale when found i would realy like to know!


greetings tino

ps sorry for the long story

[tinovanderzwan]

i just posted one of my stereo experiments on youtube
its earl fuller's famous jazz band with jazz de luxe on edison dd 1919
my channel is under my name tino van der zwan

sadly i don't know how to place yt on the forum

[edisonphonoworks]

I have also posted many years ago too, the idea of stereo cylinder playback if you could find 2 cylinders recorded in the "by the round" days, at the same session certainly. I had recorded overlaps at concerts on 2 machines, I never got to digitize them though as they are in the live cylinders recorded about 2002-2003 that are missing. Anybody know where they are (and it is now so quiet you can hear your hair grow!) I did a 15 to 30 second overlap when I recorded at the Route 66 raceway in IL.

[tinovanderzwan]

I have also posted many years ago too, the idea of stereo cylinder playback if you could find 2 cylinders recorded in the "by the round" days, at the same session certainly. I had recorded overlaps at concerts on 2 machines, I never got to digitize them though as they are in the live cylinders recorded about 2002-2003 that are missing. Anybody know where they are (and it is now so quiet you can hear your hair grow!) I did a 15 to 30 second overlap when I recorded at the Route 66 raceway in IL.

i would love to get my hands on digital tranfers of thos cylinders!

[WDC]

That CD release is quite interesting, thanks for pointing this out. What I did so far two times, was to sync two different takes of the same recording together. Of course, this is not the real thing, but the results were quite interesting.

[estott]

Just wanted to draw attention to a new Pristine release: http://www.pristineclassical.com/pasc422.html

Recordings by Stokowski, Kusevitski and Elgar which were in "accidental stereo" when two cutters were deployed at the same time. I've heard the Elgar before, but it sounds better here, but the others were new to me - very interesting, which an entire "Pathetique" wich drifts in an out of stereo - and all 1929 - 33.

I just listened to the samples - VERY impressive!

[Nat]

That CD release is quite interesting, thanks for pointing this out. What I did so far two times, was to sync two different takes of the same recording together. Of course, this is not the real thing, but the results were quite interesting.

Sounds like you pulled off something pretty wonderful! The Pristine release adds in phase synchronization and micro tuning; the results are pretty impressive. I think the most striking thing is the sudden addition of a sense of space, which somehow gives the actual playing a much more realistic sound "color."

[edisonphonoworks]

I liked it very much. They sound like early condenser microphones. My friend though has a matched pair of RCA 77As from 1931, and they sound great! They are about 8" apart mounted on the same stand and it is their original stand.

[52089]

i just posted one of my stereo experiments on youtube
its earl fuller's famous jazz band with jazz de luxe on edison dd 1919
my channel is under my name tino van der zwan

sadly i don't know how to place yt on the forum

I'll link this one for you.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU3CaitkWb0[/youtube]