Expert gramophone--too loud for an apartment?

[Meltrope3]

I've been looking for an Expert Senior, based on what I've heard of them in recordings and what I've read about them. But I have one hesitation: is an Expert Senior (chiefly played with a fibre needle) going to be too loud for regular use in an apartment (of, say, 1250 square feet)? It occurs to me that perhaps the reason the smaller Experts were made could have been less a matter of price point than a desire to make machines for us flat-dwellers. Is it likely that the Expert Senior I've been hunting for will actually lead to the cancellation of my lease? Since buying a house isn't really an option, should I set my sights on a smaller Expert?

[tinovanderzwan]

judging most stereo's i don't think even a emg can compete in top volume
also playing during daytime won't give any problems
and there's an old saying '' put a sock in it!!'' it might actually be a good suggestion for evenings and later
or play a machine with lower volume at night

tino

[Meltrope3]

Thanks Tino! Of course I'd forgotten all about the simple but highly effective volume control that horn machines have! And the information about maximum volume of an EMG compared to a modern stereo is very useful (and encouraging). I'll keep up my quest for the elusive Expert Senior...

[CarlosV]

The difference between Experts Junior and Senior are some 4 inches in the horn diameter, for the purpose of better reproduction of bass tones, not really for increase of volume. The loudness depends heavily on the period of disc that you play, acoustic discs are much softer than early electrics, and the ones after 1945 may be simply too loud to be played on such machine, as they tend to overdrive the reproducer and cause distortion (on top of wearing the disc). You can control the loudness (besides the sock solution, which could be problematic in a large horn like the Expert) by choice of needles: even the fiber needles were manufactured in varying levels of loudness (I have seen soft and medium). The softest of all will be the ones made of cactus. The length of the needle also affects its loudness. I don't have problems with loudness neither with the Junior nor with EMG mark-10a which has a larger horn. What you need to check before you buy one is if it will pass through your doors or windows.

[Orchorsol]

I use my Expert Junior, EMG VIII and EMG Xb (29 ½" diameter horn) in a small room and they sound fabulous. They can be a little overpowering with loud records occasionally but as others have said, softer needles can moderate this (at the expense of some sound quality IMO - these large horns need to be driven strongly to perform at their best).

Attributes of the room - hard reflective wall surfaces; the extent to which those are 'broken up' by hard and/or soft objects or hangings; soft furnishings; floor (concrete, or suspended floorboards, etc) and coverings - will also affect the sound greatly, as will positioning of the machine and orientation of the horn. The variables are almost infinite!

A beautiful-looking Expert Junior has been listed a number of times on UK eBay recently - but at an optimistic top-dollar price. Maybe the seller would negotiate by now - I'm surprised the start price hasn't been reduced.

[Frankia]

Another issue sometimes not taken into account is the height of your ceiling. Apparently sound waves in a closed space will travel to the nearest obstruction and break and disperse thereupon. The height of the ceiling will be yet another factor in the volume and quality of the sound.
I have had no end of problems with this issue in my own house. Hard surfaces and a strangely shaped room, plus, I suspect, the aforementioned lowish ceiling with yet another unyielding surface turned gramophones, which sounded absolutely wonderful in several other homes with smaller area squared, into (subjectively on the ear) overly loud and sharp caricatures of their true selves.
After many months of experimentation, annoying other people's heads and scratching my own, the simple addition of an old fashioned thick carpet to the wooden floor brought about approximately seventy per cent transformation! I have since made other alterations that have brought all reproduction to the point where I'm very content with everything.
One of these gramophones is an Expert Senior, and it works very well in the environment, I have to say.
However, the long term lesson has been that the area the gramophone plays into is a bit like an extension of the horn. It will affect your reproduction substantially, for better or worse. This issue seems to have been well appreciated back in the day, but is seldom referred to now.
As Orchorsol mentioned, there is an Expert Junior in wonderful looking condition for sale presently. However, I bought a Senior, admittedly not in nearly as pristine condition, for very close to the starting price in the last few years.
I wish you every success with your venture. There is nothing on the planet to touch those old externally horned EMGs or Experts if you've been bitten by the bug!

[emgcr]

The external diameter of an Expert Senior horn at the mouth is approximately 28 ¼ inches which will allow easy access into any room with a (British) standard 29 ½ inch door opening. The larger EMG and Expert horns were manufactured with this particular consideration very much in mind.

Your worries of perhaps being anti-social to your neighbours may be mitigated by the appreciation that the output of all horns is directional and that targeting a party wall can often be avoided ! It tends to be the bass resonances which penetrate/permeate living quarter divisions and the Senior will not prove too problematic in this respect, reproducing frequencies down to perhaps 90/100 Hz. Fibre needles are indeed kinder to the ear than steel.

With your own listening pleasure in mind, small rooms are certainly not a disadvantage in any way and can, in fact, boost the audio enjoyment but, as the others have pointed out, there are many contributory factors which can vary the "hi-fi" sound experience. These considerations do not generally produce insurmountable problems and experimentation can be extremely rewarding, interesting and fun.

In my view, you will never regret buying an EMG or Expert. Sound reproduction quality and detail is second to none. Good luck.

[tinovanderzwan]

ehr.. i forgot to say tie a rope onto the sock otherwise you loose the sock and get cold feet!

[Valecnik]

I think any neighbors who complain about the "noise" of the Senior would complain equally about the Junior. Go for the one which interests you most is my advice.

[epigramophone]

If and when you acquire an EMG or Expert, it's arrival at your flat will probably not go un-noticed by your neighbours who will wonder what it is, so why not invite them round for a record session?