Help! Problems playing cylinders back electrically

Victrolaboy · Post by **Victrolaboy** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:08 pm

I'm having problems playing back cylinder records (4 minute Amberols in this case). I'm using a stereo ceramic cartridge that I have converted to play vertical cut records only. I've got the cartridge going into an amp with a phono preamp and the volume is still low. I can hear the records just fine but with the volume cranked all the way up it's about as loud as some one speaking to one or two other people. Is this normal for electrical play back of acoustic vertical cut recordings? Can anyone help?

Victrolaboy · Post by **Victrolaboy** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:18 pm

Ok could my problem be with the ceramic cartridge I'm using doesn't have enough gain to produce the volume I want? Maybe I should try a different cartridge with higher out put voltage? This cartridge is a Pfanstiehl P-188 and has an output voltage of 0.35 volts or 350 millivolts.

gregbogantz · Post by **gregbogantz** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:07 am

Make sure that you have the correct wiring on the stereo cartridge. I suggest wiring the two channels in series rather than in parallel which will double the voltage output. If you get the two channels phased incorrectly, you will have it wired for lateral instead of vertical sensitivity. If wired for lateral, you will hear a lot of surface noise and little program content. But acoustically recorded cylinders have a pretty low recording level compared with lateral 78s, so you can expect the playback to be noticeably lower level when played with the same pickup.

Then, it depends on the gain of your amplifier. If you are using an old tube amplifier designed for old crystal cartridges, the amp won't have enough gain. The old crystal carts of the 1940s and 50s era put out about 5 volts and they were mated to amplfiers with very little gain. A modern integrated hifi amp should have plenty of gain. You do NOT want to use the magnetic phono input of a modern amplifier with a ceramic cartridge. In addition to having too much gain, the equalization in the preamp section is designed for magnetic pickups and will sound VERY bass-heavy when used with a ceramic cart. So you should use some other input on the amp that's designed for "line level" signals such as those marked for tuner, tape, or auxiliary. That said, modern solid state amps have too low of input impedance in their line-level inputs to be suitable for use with ceramic cartridges. This will cause a significant loss of bass. This will be noticeable when playing modern electric recordings. But that's not too much of a problem when playing back cylinder records that don't have any bass recorded on them in the first place.

Victrolaboy · Post by **Victrolaboy** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:22 am

Yes the wiring on the stereo cartridge is correct. I have the two channels wired in series like you said and not in parallel for lateral only. I tested the cartridge on a 78 to make sure that it won't respond to lateral. The records sound good but the volume is just so low. I was messing around with it the other day and pluged it into a different input and it had the volume I wanted. I put it in the input marked for tape and now it works fine. To me this makes no sense. The only reason I'm doing this is because I don't have a four minute machine yet and most of my cylinders are blue Amberols. I have two cylinder machines both are two minute only. An Edison Triumph B and a Columbia Type AT.

Mr Grumpy · Post by **Mr Grumpy** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:28 pm

How do you wire the channels in series?

EDIT: Found it using google.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3FnpaWQJO0[/youtube]

Back2skooldaze · Post by **Back2skooldaze** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:59 pm

Why not just buy an archivette from thevictrolaguy ??? Its far simpler and very very effective! With a kitchen marshall amp your amberols will sound fantastic!!! Any guitar amp will do but Kitchen Marshall amps are excellent sounding.A small 10 watt out put one will do nicely.The amp does not need to be a big powerful output! Using the tone control on those amberols makes a lovely sounding cylinder

http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-CANAPHONIC- ... 2ec783eadd

Post by **JerryVan** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:11 pm

Back2skooldaze wrote:Why not just buy an archivette from thevictrolaguy ??? Its far simpler and very very effective! With a kitchen marshall amp your amberols will sound fantastic!!! Any guitar amp will do but Kitchen Marshall amps are excellent sounding.A small 10 watt out put one will do nicely.The amp does not need to be a big powerful output! Using the tone control on those amberols makes a lovely sounding cylinder

http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-CANAPHONIC- ... 2ec783eadd

Maybe because, "The only reason I'm doing this is because I don't have a four minute machine yet"

Victrolaboy · Post by **Victrolaboy** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:05 pm

I do now. Since I posted this thread I have more than doubled the number of machines in my collection (I've got 17 now). Not meaning to brag, and there's nothing really to brag about. The archivette is overpriced and from the victrolaguy's videos I don't think it sounds good at all so I'm not buying it.

I don't care anymore about playing cylinders back electrically. The problem was that the cartridge I was using was a piece of sh*t and it didn't have much output in the first place.

Post by **CarlosV** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:29 am

If you REALLY are into playing cylinders electrically and if you have LOTS of money to spend, then the way to go is the archeophone. I listened to it in person, and it does capture sounds that no vintage machine can even come close to reproducing. It is a quite smart design, capable to play any type of cylinder.

http://www.archeophone.org/windex.php

victorIIvictor · Post by **victorIIvictor** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:00 am

You would have to be fabulously wealthy indeed to get an Archeophone, especially as they are no longer made:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... e&start=10

Specifically, Tin Foil Phono's December 28, 2014 post at 12:58 AM.

Best wishes, Mark