Edison Standard spring question

[Russ T Fender]

I just acquired an Edison Standard machine that play but after fully winding the spring it runs fine for a short time and then slows up quickly but with just a slight touch of the crank (¼ turn at the most) it picks right back up to speed. I am assuming that the spring is all gummed up but before I start pulling it apart I was hoping someone with more experience could confirm my diagnosis or suggest another possible cause. Everything on the machine is fee and it has been lightly lubricated with clock oil. Thanks.

[JerryVan]

It may be that it's gummed up, as you suggest, but it's more likely that the spring has lost it's temper and will need to be replaced. Look for other signs of binding or tightness in all the moving parts. How much force is the feed screw nut putting on the feed screw? Too much will act just like a brake. Is the belt tension idler wheel turning, or just rubbing on the belt? They're often stuck with old dried oil.

[Jerry B.]

I agree with JerryVan. I'd suggest:
Oil the ends of the governor shaft, the shaft itself, and the felt pads on the governor yoke.
Put a bit of oil on the belt pulley so it spins easily.
With the belt disconnected, wind it up and see how long the motor runs. (It might flip some oil on you)
With the belt disconnected, give the mandrel (part where the cylinder slides on) a spin. It should spin rather easily. Now lower the carriage into a playing position. I should still spin but not as easily. You'll notice that the feed screw is moving the mass of the carriage across the mandrel. (a very shott ways)

I generally disassemble the parts above the deck and clean and oil everything as it goes back together. If the upper works are ready and the lower works oiled, it's time to reconnect the belt and wind it up. Flip the lever to place the motor in "play" position and start winding. Does the motor start up and turn the mandrel? If not, you probably have a weak spring. If yes, you are ready to lower the carriage to see if it plays a record.

If it bogs down, check the half nut where it engages the feed screw. On all but a few Edisons, the carriage is moved across the mandrel because engagement of the turning feed screw engaging the half nut which is part of the carriage. Many Edison Standards (from Model B and later) there is an adjusting screw. This screw is a VERY fine adjustment. If your machine bogs down, turn the adjusting screw counter clockwise a small amount. (a quarter turn is a gross adjustment) A half nut that is not engaging the feed screw may sound like it's skipping but listen carefully. It will play a bit of the cylinder and then repeat it. In this event turn the adjustment screw clockwise a small amount until it engages. If you turn it too much, the record will slow to a stop.

I hope this helps. Jerry Blais 541-990-0781

[Jerry B.]

After re-reading your question, start with the half nut adjustment. You may want to clean and oil later which would be a good idea. Jerry

[VintageTechnologies]

I will gently disagree with a previous poster that the spring has lost its temper. I have yet to find a machine whose spring lost its temper to the point it simply couldn't play if everything else was clean and in good adjustment. The only spring problems I have ever witnessed were sudden breaks while the machine was playing, not even while being wound!

Unless there is physical damage somewhere (e.g. gear teeth), or excessive wear to bushings, a sluggish machine can often be the overall result of an accumulation of small problems throughout. There may be no single thing that can be identified as the main problem, although that sometimes happens too. Anything that moves can be dirty, gummed up, or adjusted too tight, and it all adds up.

There have been several cases where I have started with a Standard that would hardly run, and when I was done, they would play through four 2M records on a full winding.

Break up the big problem into smaller problems to isolate where the trouble appears. Remove the belt. Does the motor run long and strong then? Is there friction in the upper works when the reproducer carriage has been lowered?

[phonojim]

Too much or too little endplay in the mandrel shaft can cause drag plus the end bearings require just a slight amount of oil. The carriage rod needs to be clean and lightly oiled; the carriage bore where it slides over the rod as well. The belt idler can be freed on its shaft by applying just a drop or two of oil then rotating it until it spins freely. Be sure to wipe off any excess oil. Also oil the pivot bushing on the other end of the idler arm. It should be free to move in and out to keep the belt snug but not overly tight. Check the spring, too. Often someone has overtightened it as an attempted fix for an unrelated problem. As stated previously, your problem is very likely to be a combination of small things which combine to become something major. Something else to check is governor shaft endplay. This is something you have to do by feel - there's no way that I have discovered to measure it. You should be able to feel a very slight movement to the governor with the motor run all the way down and the brake off. Remove the belt first so the motor runs all the way down. If you don't feel any movement at all, the governor may bind and that will rob power for sure.
If this were my machine, I would simply take everything apart, clean off all old lubricant and the dirt with it, reassemble it and relubricate it.

Jim

[Russ T Fender]

Thanks everyone. I cleaned off everything initially with brake cleaner and then lightly oiled all bearing surfaces. The only thing that I did not do was try to adjust the half nut because I have no idea how to do that. I may try that next but if that is not the problem I will replace the spring.

[Jerry B.]

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