Has this ever happened to you?

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phonogal
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Has this ever happened to you?

Post by phonogal »

Hailey wrote:Oak Music Master horn on an Oak Opera and a Mahogany Music Master horn on a Mahogany Opera.

You are second in line at a tag sale. Inside the house is a very valuable phonograph. Although you do not know him, you already know the guy first in line is there for the same thing you are. What would you do?
While reading the new answer a question,ask a question topic, I came across this question by Hailey that got me thinking about something that happened to me as a new collector.
I was standing in line at an estate sale when a man in front of me started up a conversation with me. He asked if there was something in the sale that I came to look at. I told him that I was wanting to look at the phonographs that were advertised. He didn't tell me what he was looking for. When they opened the doors, I started looking around the house and finally located the three cylinder players sitting on a table and a box of cylinders that was being sold separately. I picked up the box of cylinders and started looking at players when up walks "the man". He said "I see you found the phonographs. Which one are you interested in?" I pointed to the one that I was interested in and he said "Does it work?" I said "I don't know but I will put a cylinder on it and see" He waited for me to take one of the cylinders out and put it on the machine. As soon as it started playing, he turned to the lady at the table behind us and said to her "I'll take that player and that box of cylinders (which I was still holding) He bought the player but I wouldn't let him take the cylinders. Still can't believe that anyone would do that. :o

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phonogfp
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Re: Has this ever happened to you?

Post by phonogfp »

Well, phonogal, as long as you took this ball and ran with it, I'll do the same, although it's somewhat against my better judgement.

Hailey's question describes almost exactly what happened to me in 1983. Except I was #16 and a guy who was #10 struck up a conversation with me. He asked what I was there for, and I told him the "Columbia gramophone" listed in the paper. The fellow (we'll call him Mortimer) told me that he was there for the same thing, and asked me how much it would be worth. He knew absolutely nothing about them. I told Mortie that there was no such thing as a "Columbia gramophone," but I suspected it was a Graphophone, and there was no way of knowing its value because there were many models and condition was crucial. However, I shared with him that the old guy handing out numbers on the back porch told me the machine didn't work, but if it did "...it would be worth a thousand dollars." (Remember this was 1983. I had almost left the house sale at that point, but of course I was curious.) Mortimer seemed like a nice guy, and when he asked me if I would offer advice once we were inside, I agreed to do so. About this time, a well-known phonograph dealer appeared (we'll call him Clyde), and he had #12. At that point I knew I was going home empty-handed.

They began calling numbers at 10:00AM (I had been there since 8:00AM). Mortimer disappeared inside with #10...someone else went in with #11, Clyde the dealer rushed in with #12, and I stood around for what seemed like another hour before #16 was called. As I entered the back door, I could either turn left into a small mud room, or turn right into the main part of the house. Despite my inclination to head for the action, something told me to go into that mud room... There was a Columbia floor stand, marked "Bird Cage Stand: $3." Hooray! My trip wasn't wasted after all. I carried the floor stand back out into the kitchen and headed toward the dining room. About the time I was leaving the kitchen, it occurred to me that this big Columbia floor stand wasn't something typically used with a Q, or an Eagle, or a BK... And about that moment I saw Clyde the dealer staring with eyeballs the size of fried eggs at a really cherry condition AG Graphophone. The early one with the polished aluminum bedplate. And a 54" all brass horn. Plus a 14" all brass horn. Plus 16 Grand cylinders (14 of them good). Plus the original reproducer and recorder in boxes, some original paper, the rock-hard original white rubber horn connectors, etc. Holy smokes! The sign said, "Columbia gramophone, horns & records. $400."

Clyde the dealer was in a daze. Mortimer the newbie had a big cartoon question mark over his head. My heart was breaking, but I hadn't heard any fat lady singing yet, so I approached a woman standing nearby holding a big pad of paper and looking official. "Hello," I smiled. "How does one buy something here?" The lady answered, "Just stand by the item you want and call me over." It was obvious THAT wasn't going to work, so I quietly said, "I'd like to buy the Graphophone." At this point, the woman said in a loud voice, "Oh, I'm sorry but that man has first chance on that item." She was pointing at Mortimer. Clyde the dealer, hearing this, jumps to his feet and authoritatively says, "He doesn't even know if he wants it! I'll pay for it right now!" Whereupon Morimer waves him off, saying, "I'm buying it, I'm buying it..." Clyde the dealer wants none of this, and starts shouting, "THIS IS NO WAY TO RUN A HOUSE SALE! YOU HAVE THREE GUYS WHO WANT IT? LET'S HAVE AN AUCTION! SEE WHO WANTS TO PAY THE MOST FOR IT!!

This wasn't going the direction I had hoped. In 1983 I might have been making around 18 thousand a year, but possibly not that much. We had a one year-old at home, and I couldn't afford to spend anywhere near what Clyde the dealer could muster. But the lady looked at Clyde the dealer and said, "I suppose you could do a better job?" Clyde kept on shouting, "I SURE COULD! THIS IS LOUSY WAY TO RUN A HOUSE SALE! LET THE HIGH BIDDER BUY THE THING!" And at that moment, the lady took Clyde the dealer by the arm and escorted him out the front door. :shock:

I won't lie. I fully understood that I had an opportunity to sell my soul for this gorgeous AG and its mountain of 5" Grand cylinders. And don't think I wasn't tempted. But I couldn't do it. I walked over to Mortimer as he smiled at me and said, "Okay George - - what am I looking at here?" And I told him the truth about the machine's value. But it was my lucky day. The pot metal carriage was frozen. I told Mortimer that I knew a guy in the next city who could probably fix it, but there were no guarantees (this was before I ever fixed one of these carriages). I told Mortimer that I could give him this guy's name and number, but that I would also implore him - - BEG him - - not to try to fix it himself or let anyone else try unless s/he had repaired them successfully in the past. At this point Mortimer admitted to me that he was friends with the lady running the house sale, and she knew he was looking for an old phonograph and had contacted him weeks earlier...so the fix was in. He added that he was getting married in another week, and "All I wanted was a cool old phonograph that I could take home, wind up and play records on for my fiance and me."

At that point, I told Mortimer that perhaps we could arrange a mutually beneficial arrangement. It just so happened that I had a nice AT Graphophone for sale that worked perfectly. It had the same style cabinet as the AG - - just a little smaller. Plus it played the standard-size cylinders that are much easier to find. ;) I also had an Edison Standard Model B for sale which played excellently. I told Mortimer that I could sell him either machine for only $250 and throw in 25 cylinder records. And because I was a collector and interested in more unusual machines like this AG, I would be willing to take the risk of my friend being able to fix it, plus I would give him cash at that moment should he do me the favor of letting me buy it. That cash could be used to offset the price of a machine he bought from me, or he could just take the money and run. Say, fifty dollars? Mortimer, sensing that he had me by the short and curleys, replied, "How about seventy-five?"

Mortimer wound up buying BOTH my machines with original 14" b&b horns, and 25 good cylinders in an original carrying case for $450. He was happy as a kid on Christmas morning, and so was I. :)

I still have the AG and everything that came with it - - including the "bird cage stand." And I've never lost a bit of sleep over the way in which I acquired it.:)

George P.
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Dave D
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Re: Has this ever happened to you?

Post by Dave D »

Great story!

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phonogfp
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Re: Has this ever happened to you?

Post by phonogfp »

Dave D wrote:Great story!
Thanks, Dave. There are even more details, but this was running into book-length as it was! :)

I should mention that 4 or 5 months after this house sale, I stopped by a yard sale outside the same town. I had spotted a cabinet from the road that looked familiar somehow. I was looking at it thinking it was a cylinder cabinet, but I couldn't place it and wasn't sure. The man who owned it came over and we struck up a conversation, and I shared my thinking. At that point, he volunteered that the cabinet had belonged to his grandmother, and that she used to live on Main Street of the nearby town. A light bulb went off in my head, and I asked if they had conducted a house sale the previous March... Yes, they had, and we confirmed the address. This cabinet hadn't sold (I never went upstairs in the house because I was rattled with the events of the day.), but it explains why those Columbia Grand cylinders in their original boxes were lacking lids. They were kept 5 to a drawer in that cabinet, which I later discovered in Edison 1898/99 catalogs. Soon everything was together again, and remains so. :)

I enjoy unlikely stories (as long as they're true). Dealer Clyde, who remains active in the hobby, can sadly confirm this one! :)

George P.

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fmblizz
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Re: Has this ever happened to you?

Post by fmblizz »

Great story George thanks for sharing. There is always that little bit of hope that we may all someday score on something special like that so accidently.

The Thrill of the Hunt....

Blizz

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phonogal
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Re: Has this ever happened to you?

Post by phonogal »

Great story George. I don't even remember what model cylinder player it was that I mentioned in my story above. Over the years though I have come to accept that sometimes it is your lucky day and sometimes it isn't. There is always another day and another sale.

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Re: Has this ever happened to you?

Post by Victrolaboy »

Like everyone else has said, great story! Sort of reminds me of how I ended up with my Edison Triumph. :)
Nick Hoffmann

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rizbone
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Re: Has this ever happened to you?

Post by rizbone »

Sadly yes, I am usually the number two in line and number one is a friend of the dealer. If I happen to be first then the family "decided to keep" the machine in question. I don't go to many estate sales any more.

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Bruce
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Re: Has this ever happened to you?

Post by Bruce »

Great story George. I am a believer in good karma even if I can not expect payback in the form of a nice Columbia and cabinet.

This one you deserve since you regularly set the standard of helping others without expecting payback, an inspiration to us all.

Bruce

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Re: Has this ever happened to you?

Post by Gramtastic »

While we are on good stories about acquiring machines , I thought I might confess to this one...
Someone I knew had a beautiful HMV VII table model c1915 which I wanted. He was a mad collector of George Formby 78s and had all of them apart from about three - one of which I had. The only way he would consider selling the HMV would be if I let him have one of the rare records I owned. It had taken me several years to get this so I wasn't keen. I decided on a cunning plan ! I contacted every specialist record dealer I could find in the UK to see if anyone had the record for sale. Eventually , I found one and bought it.... the day it arrived I rang the guy and said that I had changed my mind and would let him have the record. A deal was done and I fetched the machine that night. Everyone won in the end !!

Wow, feel better now I have confessed !

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