Help indentifying a hornless tabletop

[fonografica]

I have seen this machine on sale on a Spanish website. It has the HMV logo and defenitely a HMV motor too. What looks strange to me is the size of the machine (smallest I have ever seen) and the straight tone-arm). Any HMV experts out there
know this machine?

[epigramophone]

Certainly not a UK HMV "hornless", all of which had gooseneck tonearms and Exhibition soundboxes. I do not think the one piece tonearm on this example is by HMV, and the No.4 soundbox is later than the machine.

There is also something not quite right about the case which has beading around the base, presumably on three sides, with the doors looking almost like an afterthought. Could this be the case of an external horn machine which was "updated" at some time in antiquity? If so, the perpetrator very successfully ruined it.

[Phono48]

It was originally a Zonophone "Cinch", rebranded as an HMV for various overseas markets. The straight arm is correct.

Information gathered from the "bible". "His Master's Gramophone"

Barry

[fonografica]

Thank you for your answers!

[Steve]

I presume these have simple plywood internal horns like the HMV Style 1, 3 and 6? What's with all the screws in the motorboard though?

[Inigo]

I have a very similar one, if not the same model! It's in my avatar...
Mine was missing the horn sides, and I added them, made of modelling board. These apparently added doors must be original, mine also has them. The base moulding, etc , but mine was missing the horn grille.
The original soundbox is an exhibition junior.
It's equally to the zono Cinch, as someone has said.
Here is a link to my similar machine in performance
https://youtu.be/nMbD2_OMc_s
The record is the 1911 version of Robert Coverley's The Passing Regiment, a descriptive march imitating the passing of a regiment band, starting with sounds faraway, then passing next, in full volume, then going away... This recording 16275u was made by Scheuplein with the Municipal Band of Valencia in 1911. Seven years later the matrix was replaced by a version with the Banda de Ingenieros, 20121u. The record must have sold very well....

[Steve]

I have a very similar one, if not the same model! It's in my avatar...
Mine was missing the horn sides, and I added them, made of modelling board. These apparently added doors must be original, mine also has them. The base moulding, etc , but mine was missing the horn grille.
The original soundbox is an exhibition junior.
It's equally to the zono Cinch, as someone has said.
Here is a link to my similar machine in performance
https://youtu.be/nMbD2_OMc_s
The record is the 1911 version of Robert Coverley's The Passing Regiment, a descriptive march imitating the passing of a regiment band, starting with sounds faraway, then passing next, in full volume, then going away... This recording 16275u was made by Scheuplein with the Municipal Band of Valencia in 1911. Seven years later the matrix was replaced by a version with the Banda de Ingenieros, 20121u. The record must have sold very well....

Can you please post a photo of the motorboard (top of cabinet) with turntable removed? Thank you!

I've seen a couple of examples in auction on The Saleroom and they appear to have several screws in diagonal formation at the rear of the case but I have no idea what they're for. They clearly aren't for the horn fixing or connected to the motor in any way.

[Inigo]

These diagonal screws are for attaching the two internal original wooden boards forming the horn at both sides of the motor. The motor hangs in the middle of the horn!
Mine has the screw holes, but no wooden boards.... I've yet not decided to replace them, as my modelling board horn is better; I added a sloped bottom board from the tonearm entrance down to the horn mouth, which the original didn't have. In my video you can see my internal horn cavity (painted black) and the motor hangings in the middle.
Here's the photo of the top board with the screw holes:
Marked in red are the approximate location of the missing boards, you can see two screw holes for each board.
Marked in blue are two extra holes, I don't know the purpose... Perhaps it was remotored at some time in its long life. But it arrived to me with the original motor, so who knows?

[Steve]

Oh, great thanks for doing that!

So by my count there are at least eight screw fixings for the motorboard? The four angled screw hole positions ARE for fixing the plywood horn sides then? Interesting. I wonder why they didn't copy the HMV design whereby the horn sides are glued in placed with wedges and fixed to the base, not the motorboard? HMVs also have the motor suspended within the horn after all.

[Inigo]

Yes, it's clearly a different make. The to board is attached with eight screws, three at each side and two at the back. The side and back boards are also screwed to the bottom. As soon as you remove the top board, the two doors fall apart, as they are engaged with simple pins between the top and the base boards.
In all, it results a tiny simple machine, very economic and nice. It's plays fairly well, though.