Class M on eBay

[kumbo1899]

See eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/261928899916?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

I notified this seller that the machine is is selling does not have a Bettini Reproducer but instead a Bettini Recorder which is probably why the playback carriage is in the photo. As indicated in the close up of the Bettini attachment it indicates Model (r). I posed the notification in the form of a question which I assumed he would simply post on the site to avoid confusion and unhappy buyers since there is, in my opinion, a dramatic price point difference between a Bettini Reproducer and a Bettini Recorder.

Seller responded that he could not fix without dropping the entire listing and starting over with a new listing. Seller indicated he will simply tell the winner of the difference and if the winner does not want the machine then he will sell to the next highest bidder and so on.

Am I missing something here? Why not just allow the posting of my question to him (which I did at on the eBay site) and it will show up on the listing so all can see.

Hmmmm. Wait until you sell then drop the news to your high bidder that "you sorta are not getting what you paid for".

Have not entered anything on the Forum site for several years but simply could not let this one pass.

Hawes/Seattle

[kumbo1899]

Progress on listing. Seller did indicate he figured out how to add a note to the listing and correct the problem. Listing still says Bettini Reproducer but below he states it is a Bettini Recorder THEN goes on to say no worry because the device with the photos (the Edison carriage and reproducer) is the Bettini Reproducer!

No more time on this one. Anyone that would bid money on this should know the difference anyway. LH

[jboger]

Here's a quick synopsis of the history of eBay from someone who joined around 1999. I have bought and sold, not much, but I have observed the changes over time. There are good an honest sellers on eBay, to be sure, but there are enough bad apples to sour the experience.

At first, eBay was like a giant flea market. Buyers and sellers were often one and the same. Not so any more. It is dominated by sellers who have increasingly relied on Buy it Now, thus transforming eBay from a genuine auction site to a retail outlet. When eBay started, sellers would post questions and their answers on their listings. You could almost see the moral dilemma unfolding over time as sellers realized that they could make even more profit if they didn't post or make public their responses to condition questions. Doing so would level the playing field and might adversely affect the final price. And, hey, as a seller I wasn't forcing anyone to bid, right? So that moral dilemma was resolved by all sellers as a group not posting responses to questions on their listings. Unless, of course, something good about the object might enhance how much money changed hands.


So again back in the good 'ol days when eBay first started, sellers made wild and wonderful promises how they would scour the world for treasure sand deliver them to your door with uncompromised honesty and professionalism. Then the threats started. I am 100% sure that this was a result in part due to dead beat bidders, because, heh, there are some bad people out there. But I would say that it mostly resulted from the feeling that once you as a buyer turned your money over to the seller, the seller felt it was his or hers no matter what the complaint. Heh, this is an auction. Of course, it's not really an auction, is it? You rely on the seller to be your eyes and ears. There's a massive conflict of interest there.


Throughout most of eBay's history, eBay itself sided with the seller. eBay mistakenly thought its fees came from sellers. And so eBay protected its sellers as the expense of the buyers. After all, eBay took a percentage from the hammer price., right? But eventually enough complaints accrued that eBay realized that if bidders didn't feel confident to bid eBay itself would go under or its bottom line would take a hit. So gradually eBay realized it needed to make concessions to buyers. This led to changes in feedback rules and buyer protection sanctions. Because, after all, eBay's bottom line does not come out of the seller's pocket no matter how much the seller feels that's the case, but really from the buyer. No sale, no hammer price, no fee collected.

There are most definitely honest sellers on eBay. I have been one of them. And I'm willing to bet phonograph dealers are an honest lot. Why? Because they have a genuine love of what they sell. But most things sold on eBay are sold by people who could care less what they sell as long as they make a buck. For a significant number of people (sellers or buyers) honesty is secondary to maximizing profit. My advice to people who want to bid on eBay, only bid what you are willing to lose. We don't need most of the stuff anyway.


Anyway, coming back to your recent experience, I would have expected no less a response. The moral dilemma posed by posting Q&As on a listing was resolved a long time ago: only provide a private response; post nothing publicly. And that's OK because that's how everyone else does it. Why should I be any different?

[Mr Grumpy]

Anyone that would bid money on this should know the difference anyway. LH

Not that I'm bidding on this...

but I wouldn't have known the difference without you pointing it out here.

So IF I was bidding (and I'm not), I'd appreciate the topic you started very much.

(actually, I appreciate it anyway because I learned something new)

[Andersun]

I wonder if the 2/4 minute mandrel that is on it will even work on that machine. I dont think you can position it towards the right side enough to get the drive belt to run thru all of the pulleys. It definitely won't work in it's current position!

The swarf drawer looks a little short.

[rizbone]

Good catch. I didn't notice the mandrel until you brought it up. I was distracted by the diamond B reproducer.

[daverob]

Any other observations?
I bought it second chance offer...
Am i gonna need to find a "type m" parts machine?
I can post pics when it arrives.


Ps... I have heretofore been a disc phonograph collector... So I know very little (only a few hours of online and book research) and it still seemed like a fair deal... Assuming it's not a horrible edison frankenphone.

[Andersun]

It is missing the motor access cover which is directly below the belt pulley which is connected to the motor shaft.

It looks like the left side case panel was replaced. That area of the case was vulnerable due to the fact that the mechanism sat in place and is very heavy. Any sudden movements during transport could cause the mechanism to break thru the side panel.

It also looks like the drawers have been replaced and the motor has been rewound.

The upper bedplate pinstripe doesn't match the lower.

The lower bedplate is very interesting. It has no data plates on it but it does have a "North American Phonograph Company" and the Edison Signature logo on it. I would like to see closeup pics of them and the lower pinstripe to see if that is original or not. I would also like to see if there are any holes in the lower and upper bedplate that were for mounting of any plates.

Looks like a fun project to put back together or put another together with it's parts!

Steve

[daverob]

Well, it finally arrived. Before I berate the shipper, how much will it cost to replace the lock bolt that snapped off in transit... I see a similar one on several edison machines.

[De Soto Frank]

I think the same "latch-bolt" was used on the "long=frame" Home through the end of the Model A.

The bit with the ball is essentially a nut ( female threads ), and the bit that broke is an eye-bolt.


Hopefully, you'll be able to grab the stub that's in the knob, and carefully back it out.


The eye-bolt looks to be secured by the same screw that secures that same end of the carriage-rest straight-edge.


I am sure someone will have a spare eye-bolt, or someone like Ron Sitko can make-up one.


I hope this is the limit of the damage.