Victor Spring Barrel Top Retaining Wire--HELP!

[coyote]

OK, I have just cleaned and re-greased all four springs from an 8-12. That was the easy part. I'm confounded now by these wire pieces that hold the lid of the spring barrel on. How in blazes do you get them back on?! When pressed all along the circumference of the barrel, they don't seem to meet up properly again/seem too long, when the ends were flush and butted together when I popped them off. Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated! Photos below.

Thanks,
Bill

IMG_0847.jpg (199.5 KiB) Viewed 2940 times

IMG_0848.jpg (146.17 KiB) Viewed 2940 times

This is the winding gear end; I just don't have the gear in place.

[B.B.B]

Force & more force is what worked for me.
I was also puzzled when faced with the retaining clip for the first time.

I found out that the easiest way, for me at least, was to put half of the clip back, then grab the spring barrel so the half of the clip on the barrel is in your palm.
Then with your other hand, force the rest of it down.
You need to apply pretty much force, because it sure is a tight fit.
But that is also what holds them in place.

Remember, they were there when you removed them, so they do fit.
Maybe a pair of gloves can help you with a firm grip.

[gramophoneshane]

I like to use a block of wood & hammer to tap the cover down, to make sure the spring/s & cover are all seated in the barrel as far as possible before replacing the wire. Then if the wire doesn't pop into place, I put the wire in as best I can and using 2 pairs of pliars, I'll hold the lip of the barrel & wire near the end with one pair, then I'll work my way around with the other pair, squeezing the wire into the lip to seat it in properly. By the time you get near the other end of the wire, it should go in properly.
Most of the time I haven't got to go this far, but you do find the occasional wire that's a very tight fit.

[coyote]

Thanks guys...I did get one back in. GShane, tapping down the lid is indeed necessary to get the proper "groove" for the retaining wire to sit in--the replaced springs and new grease keep the lid pushed up too much unless you tap it down with a hammer. The one I was able to replace by squeezing the free ends together and inserting this FIRST, keeping the ends together while pushing the rest into the barrel. The other was a lost cause--I don't think I caused the lip to be out-of-round or anything as the vise was gripping the other end of the barrel when removing the springs. After about an hour, I finally just gave up and (sorry for this) tapped the lip of the barrel on opposite sides to dent it in a little. This will keep the lid in place, and is not THAT horrible to deal with for future repairs, as it's reversible. I felt bad about doing that to the one barrel, but...sometimes you have to do what works, as long as it can be undone. Thanks for your help--the machine still has a bit of drag in either the drive/spindle or governor gears, but runs better than it did. I can live with a slow-starting turntable and only playing three or four records on a full winding.

[gramophoneshane]

I hate to tell you, but I think next time you look, there'll probably be grease all over the motor
You really need the wire to form a seal so the grease isn't pushed out from between the cover and the barrel. It might be better to just grind 0.5-1 mm off the end of the wire to get it in.

[JohnM]

Be sure that you haven't tightened the bolts that hold the motor to the motor board too tightly -- twisting the metal motor frame can throw everything into a bind.

John M

[coyote]

Shane, I see your point...I'll have to go back and do it properly. I think your method might work.

As for the bolts, John, I never touched them (no need to as I was only doing the mainsprings), but I'll check to see that someone else didn't torque them.

[AZ*]

I've struggled with the retaining wires from time to time. Some slip right in place while others are a bit stubborn.

When faced with the problem of overlapping ends, I usually use a nail set and gently tap it with a hammer. I use the tip of the nail set to nudge the overlapping "inner" end past the "outer" end while the barrel is held securely in a vise. It generally works for me, although it may take several attempts, and the wire may jump out of the groove once or twice.

Good luck.

[coyote]

Thanks for all the suggestions; I'm sure I'll be successful this weekend when I have time to try again. I suppose I'll also have to take out the drive/spindle gear and governor to find the source of the slight drag, if I can. The upside is that the reproducer is great, and doesn't need any restoration. As a reminder, this is an 8-12.

While I'm on the subject, (My apologies for all the questions, I'm new to Victor machines!) I have a bit of concern with the pot metal tone-arm back bracket. I feel that the pin leaves A LOT of vertical play in the tonearm, but don't want to mess with it too much. The retaining screw for the pin can be removed and replaced without issue, but the pot metal looks a bit dodgy around the screw, and the pin does NOT move at all when the retaining screw is removed. Should I just live with it, or get a new bracket? If new is the way to go, what are the options others have used? Ron Sitko? I believe this is his "medium" bracket, they're a one-piece casting, and unpainted (?). Thanks for all your help. A few photos to illustrate the condition of the pot metal and how much play is there, plus links to some videos showing this. Thanks!

Video links:

http://www.pghcoyote.com/bracket/1.avi
http://www.pghcoyote.com/bracket/2.avi

[B.B.B]

I own just two Victor machines, but they both have some play in that area.
From my limited amount of experience, I think that it doesn't really matter, the important thing is that the tone-arm moves easy & free.

Re: the cracked pot-metal, if it was my bracket & I couldn't get a replacement,
I'd smear the whole bracket with JB Weld, make sure it gets as far in the cracks as possible, let it sit & cure for a week or two, then sand & refinish it.