C19 record repeating

[BwanaJoe]

I finally got my reproducer rebuilt and back in my hands. I've played my first record 10 months after I rescued the machine. Unfortunately it repeats due to the limit pin hitting the left side of the limit loop prior to the end of the record. Breaking out the manual I've attempted to fix the problem and have come down to the last step; bending the horn. Before I do that I'm wondering if I've missed something.

I've:

1) adjusted the feed rack height
2) adjusted the feed rack so it is the same height side to side
3) adjusted the limit pin to sit centered as suggested (the manual says one pin diameter from the cup though)
4) ensured I'm starting the record in the first groove.
5) had the reproducer serviced so the hinge block moves freely.

Anything else?

If I have to bend the horn backwards what is the best way to do this so I don't mess it up?!


Thanks,

Joe B

[winsleydale]

If it's just the limit pin hitting the loop, it is an issue I have had on every DD machine I have had. It's just that the weight and stylus are advancing slightly forward of the horn. For me, the way I deal with it is by lowering the stylus on the outside of the disc before the start of the groove. You then gently nudge the weight until the stylus finds the groove, and then, without raising the horn at all, gently push the body of the reproducer forward until the loop is pretty well centered over the pin in the weight (you will hear clicks as you skip teeth in the advance mechanism; the teeth are sloped and the rack is spring-loaded, so no damage will occur from this technique).

The reason that the limit pin tends to go so far left, as far as I can tell, is that the stylus slides toward the groove quite quickly, whereas the body of the reproducer only moves with the feed mechanism. So basically, unless you are superb at dropping the diamond directly into the groove without losing a moment or so of music, you just need to manually advance the feed mechanism until it has 'caught up' with the weight and stylus. It is important that the limit pin be as close to the center of the loop as possible to account for any eccentricity in the record groove. This method is not what I would call convenient, but it's effective and simple, and importantly, you don't need to alter the machine at all.

[BwanaJoe]

Thanks for the tip.

I lower it into the starting groove then start the turn table spinning. The problem is that it does start out centered but moves left as it plays. I guess I could try to make it start farther right if necessary but I'd really like to not worry about.

[winsleydale]

...I'd really like to not worry about.

I understand that. I just think it would be best to avoid messing with the mechanism if at all possible. For me, this little thing has become as second-nature as cranking the thing; after a while, you stop even thinking about it. That said, it's your machine, not mine. But, I can't help you with bending the horn... That's a little above my level of expertise. If that's the route you choose, I wish you nothing but the best!

[fran604g]

What I've learned to do is very similar to what winsleydale does, except I start the turntable first, then swing the reproducer over to the beginning of the record with my left hand -- while holding the limit pin with my thumb -- then lower the reproducer with the operating handle as typical with my right hand, while watching where the stylus is positioned in relation to the record.

If the limit pin looks like it's too far out of the center of the loop when I set it down to play, I raise the reproducer and reposition it appropriately.

If the pin is always advancing toward the spindle faster than the reproducer is, then just compensate a little by positioning the pin to the right side of the loop before you lower it with the operating handle.

Best,
Fran

[barnettrp21122]

I've had only one machine do what yours is doing. Bending the horn neck as directed completely solved the problem for me. If you're careful doing this, it's unlikely that you'll damage anything. There is some springiness in the material, and you can take your time bending it until you're satisfied. Just go slow! It doesn't take much!
Bob

[BwanaJoe]

Thanks. Did you block the horn with anything? Did you just gently grab it by the neck and push it backwards?

[barnettrp21122]

As far as I remember, I just carefully bent it back as the directions state. You'll find it will bend up, but spring back some when you release. Give it a few tries, playing a record in-between.
Bob

[fran604g]

A few of us had a long discussion about horn alignment a few weeks ago, here is the link to it:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=22293

Indeed, if the horn is bent too far forward (down) then the stylus can track ahead faster than the gearing will drive the mechanism, and may come in contact with the left side of the limit loop. Alternately, if the horn is too far rearward (up), the pin may contact the right side of the loop.

Here's an image that barnettrp21122 posted in another thread discussing the horn alignment:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 227#p75227

Very instructional stuff!

I recently acquired an "Edison Horn Gauge" that would have been used with a "Horn Aligning Bar" to accurately align and calibrate the horn/reproducer to it's correct height and travel specifications.

This is a photo of my "Horn Alignment Gauge". (I transcribed and reapplied the original text to the image (for clarity purposes), and added the terms "Spindle Hole" and "Nose". Additionally, I highlighted the two horn size labeling "250" & "150" so that they can be seen easily.

I haven't found a "Horn Aligning Bar" yet, but I'm looking. I'd love to reverse engineer and make one, if anyone here has one I can use to accurately measure...

Best,
Fran

[BwanaJoe]

That is cool! Do you have a scan of it?

I'll check those links out.