Standard with no serial Number ?

[Gramtastic]

I have just acquired a Model A Standard which has the "Edison Bell Consolidated Phonograph Co Type 2" label on the lid. From what I have read this was only used until about 1903 but it has the pull knob to lower the reproducer not the lever so it might be a bit later ? My query is that the data label has a neat slot where the number should be and there is no other serial number anywhere else. Anyone know why there is no serial number ? It looks as though it was done originally and hasn't been altered. Any idea about date as well ?

[martinola]

Huh! This may have been Edison-Bell's way of selling machines after the U.S. based National Phonograph Company was no longer supplying machines to them for resale. From reading Frow's book, National Phonograph was unhappy with it's arrangement with Edison-Bell in the UK and was looking to start its own UK distributorship.

Obliterating the serial number is one way to hide using third party purchased stock. I'm pretty sure your machine still has a serial number, however. The serial number was also punched directly into the bedplate casting and would be under the plate itself. The numbers are kind of hard to see with the thick layer of black japan enamel. I'm not recommending you do this, mind you, I'm just suggesting it is still probably there.

There is one more "secret" place for the serial number on the bedplate. It is underneath the motor and is covered up with a sealing wax-like stuff that makes it look like a rough area on the casting. If I needed to know what the serial number was, a sharpened putty knife would do the trick. If you ever do decide to peek, please let me know. I think the data gained would be useful for the Edison Standard Data Project. I'd love to see more pictures. And thanks for sharing this!

Regards,
Martin

[Gramtastic]

Thanks Martin - I did wonder if Edison Bell had removed it to use one of their own. I will look under the bedplate to see if there is any wax. There is another odd thing I have never seen before; inside the lid is the word "COMPLETE" stamped into the wood - any ideas what this referred to ? I will post some more pictures tonight when I get home.

[Gramtastic]

Here are a couple more photos - anyone know when the end gate clip changed from the screw type to the ball type ? What does "COMPLETE" mean under the lid ? Any idea of age would be welcome - I am assuming around 1903/4 but am no expert !

[martinola]

The button lift and the modified end gate latch were issued by National Phonograph to side-step patent issues with the Edison Bell people. While the Standard would in most cases keep the button lift, as soon as the patent issue resolved itself, it went back to having the normal spring clip. So far I've only noted 4 other machines with that type latch: 94303, 107174, 107827, 109922. The latter three are probably from the Fall of 1903.

After the split between Edison Bell (EB) and National (NAT), EB was free to sell remaining stock of Edison machines with no legal way to obtain more. Conversely, NAT had to sell modified machines to not conflict with EB patents.

Your machine has the earmarks of a NAT machine with an EB badge. Taking this with the removed serial number, I'm guessing that EB was trying to skirt their supply line problems while they were waiting to get alternate machines for sale (from Germany? - I can't remember).

I have not seen a "complete" stamp inside the lid before. Since EB was walking a thin line at that point, I'd guess that they'd want to be very sure they weren't sending a traceable machine. (Too bad they didn't know about the secret serial number locations!)

Fascinating machine. Thanks again!

Martin

[rgordon939]

I bought this Edison Home Suitcase from the grandson of the original owner. He said the machine had been in his family all his life. The machine including the Automatic reproducer and the Automatic recorder all of which have no serial numbers. I found an article in a copy of an Edison Phonograph Monthly from around 1905 that said phonograph dealers who were not authorized Edison dealers would remove the serial numbers on machines they sold to avoid prosecution by Edison. This may be the same with your machine.

Rich Gordon

[clevelander]

Martin,
After the enforced arrangement whereby Edison Bell sold only imported machines ended in 1902, they were free to sell what they liked.
Some machines like the Empire were indeed German imports, but EB started their own-brand British manufactured models such as the Imp, Elf, Era and Don.
Alistair.

[Gramtastic]

Thanks Guys for all the information! I hadn't realised it was such an interesting machine. I went to a local auction on Wednesday to look at a horn gramophone which turned out to be a pile of junk but saw this as the fourth from the last lot. Fortunately decided to stay to see what it fetched and came home with it for £120 (plus commission). It is "barn" or "attic" fresh, complete with cobwebs and a mouldy cylinder but it has cleaned up really well. With some de-greasing to remove the old hard grease and a re-oil it plays beautifully (even using the belt that was on it) Occasionally you can find good things - even in the UK !