Balancing an Orthophonic tone arm?

[Cody K]

I've been finding that the bracketed tone arm on my recently acquired VV-8-35 has a tendency to slip out from under its pivot. It seems to me this should be a matter of a fairly simple adjustment, i.e., sufficiently tightening the set screw on the bracket. But when I reset the tone arm and tighten the set screw enough so that it should stay put, it raises the tone arm just enough so that by around the middle of the record the sound box is just a touch too high to properly track a record's groove. There's a difference of around a sixteenth of an inch in the soundbox's distance from the record (with no needle in) between the outside edge of the record as it travels toward the middle.

Leaving the set screw somewhat loosely tightened seems to solve the problem for a while, and the machine plays beautifully. But after playing a dozen or so records, the tone arm jumps the pivot again. And I fix it again.

What's going on here? Can anyone suggest how I can properly adjust this so that it stays adjusted?

Thanks...

[barnettrp21122]

I've had a similar problem with my 8-35 too. It seems there's a limit pin on the tone arm that's meant to keep the steel needle (positioned properly in the needle chuck)from digging into the leatherette turntable covering.
I adjusted the pivot just as you've done, and I've had no further trouble with it loosening after that. You might consider making your adjustment again, and then applying a small drop of this, Permatex Threadlocker Green, to the head of the set-screw. It's available at most auto supply stores. The green formula is thin enough to creep slightly into a tightened screw, yet can be undone if necessary without damage to the screw threads. Use as little as possible, applying with a separate pinpoint.
That said, I've found some needles are almost too short when inserted fully in the needle chuck. Backing out a bit before tightening may help, but it's bothersome.
Another workaround would be to add a felt turntable cloth.
I normally use home-made bamboo and cactus needles, so the length of these can be adjusted too.
Hope this helps!
Bob

[Cody K]

Thanks Bob, I appreciate the suggestion. Threadlocker might just keep the set screw in the right position. As I'm sure you know, the tone arm assembly is in the toughest place on the 8-35, below the cabinet's overhang behind the lid hinge, tucked into a dark little cave. Very frustrating to work on, and really a design flaw; I can't really work out how they got the thing together in the factory -- I'll bet there was grumbling from workers on that production line.

I guess the leatherette turntable was a good enough reason to employ a limit pin, though other Orthophonic tone arms don't seem to have this problem. The soundbox on my Credenza (with an unbracketed tone arm) will touch the turntable even without a needle, and the felt has received very little needle damage over the years. And with or without a limit pin, the leatherette turntables I've seen have all had at least some needle damage.

Tangentially, I'm actually not a big fan of the leatherette turntable, nor for that matter of the dark finish of the metal fixtures in the 8-35. I think Victor would have done better to have designed for an normal orange felt turntable and gold plating. With the dark fixtures and deep well, these things aren't very pretty under the hood. But then, the cabinet design redeems the model, and of course, it's really all about the fine sound that the large metal horn can produce.

Anyway, I'll try a dab of threadlocker. Might be just the thing.

Cody

PS -- Now you've got me thinking about making bamboo needles. I put in a grove of bamboo in back of the house a few years ago, but it's in more shade than it would like, so growing slowly and not producing anything very thick yet. I just recently got a mess of old bamboo needles and a Victor cutter, and I've really been liking the needles. I hadn't played with bamboo needles in many years, but knowing now how well they can play, making them sounds like a good thing to learn to do.

[barnettrp21122]

Cody:
I agree about the tone arm placement issues in the 8-35. One also has to be careful turning back the soundbox so as not to bump it against the lid edge. It's an easy habit to learn though.
I use old tiki torches for bamboo needles! If you find an aged one, of medium thickness and good density you can get dozens out of it, cutting inch-long rings and splitting them in triangular-shaped pieces, finally cutting the points with the fiber needle cutter. Once you get the hang of it, it only takes a few seconds to make one!
Bob

[Cody K]

I've noticed too how easily one can hit the edge of the lid with a needle when turning the soundbox back into the resting position; in fact I'm surprised that the wood at the edge hasn't been gouged more in that area over time. But as you've said, it's an easy thing to get into the habit of avoiding.

Using old tiki torches for needle material is genius! Every spring (and often in autumn too) I see lots of old torches put out on trash day after having been left out in the weather all year -- otherwise known as "properly seasoned for needles". Thanks for the tip -- I'm gonna grab the next one I see and get to work!

[Henry]

Using old tiki torches for needle material is genius! Every spring (and often in autumn too) I see lots of old torches put out on trash day after having been left out in the weather all year -- otherwise known as "properly seasoned for needles". Thanks for the tip -- I'm gonna grab the next one I see and get to work!

They should work great to play those hot jazz compilations!

[alang]

Using old tiki torches for needle material is genius! Every spring (and often in autumn too) I see lots of old torches put out on trash day after having been left out in the weather all year -- otherwise known as "properly seasoned for needles". Thanks for the tip -- I'm gonna grab the next one I see and get to work!

They should work great to play those hot jazz compilations!

How about Hawaiian records? Tiki torch needles should be perfect for those (sorry, could - not - resist)

Andreas

[Cody K]

Bob! BOB! You win the award for The Best Advice Ever Given on the Internet Regarding Making Your Own Bamboo Needles!

I finally ran across a couple weathered, discarded tiki torches on the curb this week. Took them home, removed all the extraneous stuff, and gently sliced off a bunch of ~half-inch pieces with the chop saw. Split the pieces with a single-edged razor into right-sized triangular sticks, pointed them in the Victor™ sharpener, and -- wow! Having not been chemically hardened, they don't seem to last more than one record (and that one needs to be in pretty good condition). But by the time they hit the curb, they've been outdoors for awhile, and there's no oil left in them -- they're perfectly seasoned. These needles sound every bit as good as any other bamboo needle I've used -- ancient Victors -- and even if they need to be repointed for every record, hey, free bamboo needles for life! Anywhere people toss out old tiki torches, which is pretty much everywhere. A new era of bamboo needles has arrived...

Seriously. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll never look at a tiki torch the same way again.

Has this needle bidness thrown this thread off-topic, or what?

[barnettrp21122]

Bob! BOB! You win the award for The Best Advice Ever Given on the Internet Regarding Making Your Own Bamboo Needles!

I finally ran across a couple weathered, discarded tiki torches on the curb this week. Took them home, removed all the extraneous stuff, and gently sliced off a bunch of ~half-inch pieces with the chop saw. Split the pieces with a single-edged razor into right-sized triangular sticks, pointed them in the Victor™ sharpener, and -- wow! Having not been chemically hardened, they don't seem to last more than one record (and that one needs to be in pretty good condition). But by the time they hit the curb, they've been outdoors for awhile, and there's no oil left in them -- they're perfectly seasoned. These needles sound every bit as good as any other bamboo needle I've used -- ancient Victors -- and even if they need to be repointed for every record, hey, free bamboo needles for life! Anywhere people toss out old tiki torches, which is pretty much everywhere. A new era of bamboo needles has arrived...

Seriously. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll never look at a tiki torch the same way again.

Has this needle bidness thrown this thread off-topic, or what?

Cody:
I'm glad the tiki torches worked out so well for you! Some bamboo samples won't work very well, but if you find a length of good bamboo it will yield dozens, if not hundreds of free needles. Enjoy the music always!
Bob