Experiment

[edisonc250]

I had my parents and my brother and sister along with their kids over to the house last weekend and had them listen to 3 recordings on my c250 and 3 on my Victor 215...they listened with their backs to the machines and had them listen(they did not know which machine was being played)..The edison won hands down...I did not play the recordings back to back...I shuffled them between the machines...the edison was preferred on every play. Comments??...and would recommend you do this if u get a chance

[OrthoSean]

Hm, it's an interesting idea and a frequent subject of debate among collectors (I say both systems each have their own merits and stop there). I could easily play a Victor on a Victor (from the right period) that would blow an Edison out of the water and vice versa. There are lots of variables. Are you playing the period discs on the 215 (say 1920-22?), is the reproducer properly rebuilt? This all makes a huge difference in sound, as I'm sure you know already.

I recently uncovered my C-19 after not playing it all winter (same as the C-250, basically), and played through a number of dance band sides with my trusty rebuilt reproducer and new stylus and had almost forgotten just how LOUD that machine is, even from two rooms away!

Anyway, it's a fun experiment, nonetheless!

Sean

[edisonc250]

Sean, Yes its just a bit a fun to have with machines etc...I love them both and get great enjoyment from all my machines...!!!!.....how often in the modern world can u actually experience in a pure way the same experience that people 80-100yrs ago experience. on a side note..my wife enjoys the music and machines as much as I do(except the spring grease repacking etc)!!!!

[larryh]

Your test in my opinion is right on. I have been playing lots of records lately on all systems, stereo, acoustic Brunswick, orthophonic and if your a astute listener you can't help be impressed by the amount of "Presence" Edison was able to get from his recordings. In fact, although the comments about the "other" machines blowing Edison out of the water, I have not found that to be totally true. For a while before I started selling off most of my orthophonic recordings I put the Credenza in the same spot the Edison occupies in the living room. When I got back and listened I was amazed at how shallow the sound of the Orthophonic could be when compared to the full round tones of the Edison. I know that certain types of music may be wider in seeming range, but the realistic quality of Edison is still very startling especially in solo type recordings. But also in group pieces. When I hear a good piano record on Edison the quality of "tone" was as Edison stated, most realistic. Where as the orthophonic and victor recordings while good, just lacked in that up front solid sound of Edison. Same for classical band type records. On the Brunswick I like the rather blended effect which does have its own appeal, but when the same type piece is played of a good Edison recording, the clarity and separation of instruments is impossible to beat.
When it comes to those pipe organ records, again the realistic tone and intense power of the Edison recordings is almost impossible to believe from a recording of the acoustic age. Voices come out of the Edison as if they were really standing there. On and on..

This doesn't mean I don't enjoy other records and often revert to them due to the intense effects of the Edison which can become tiring but every time I drag out a Edison record and listen to it from another part of the house, I am amazed at the abilities the Edison displays.

One farther issue.. As many know I have dabbled in creating diaphragms for Edison that would improve the sound quality compared to other current
items. Its very apparent to me that one can experience all kinds of tonal and volume issues with diaphragms both old and new that will greatly diminish the ability of your machine to put forth the kind of sound were talking about here. In fact just yesterday I played a Rachmaninoff Prelude in C Sharp Minor that so far had defied playing clearly without distortion on the loud notes previously. The latest few tried a combinations of materials which I have installed a month or so ago has proved to give results unheard previously with any of my tires. The irritating thing about it is that when I discover something giving better than normal results, It almost always proves very difficult to recreate for some reason. This latest few has one that plays absolutely clear to the point of being near perfect, however even in a Edisonic head it proves a bit shallow of tone and weaker in volume than some. The other which I described with the piano record is much louder and has a super presence and range, and shows only the smallest of flaws at this point. In fact as I said, that Rachmanioff record had defied clear playing for over a year and I actually thought it perhaps was distorted on recording till I heard it yesterday..

[OrthoSean]

Hm, it's an interesting idea and a frequent subject of debate among collectors (I say both systems each have their own merits and stop there).

Larry,

I was waiting for you to say something here! It's been beaten like a dead horse many times over, but I'll still be more than happy to demonstrate in person, to anyone who wants to take a road trip to beautiful upstate NY that BOTH Edison and Victor (and other lateral machines, including my favorite Brunswick) can hold their own in this "contest" of which there really is none. To me, part of enjoying different machines are the slight differences they have in sound. I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible. We know that even a "perfect" Edison DD reproducer and stylus, some rebuilt and some not, seem to have different sounds. I have five different rebuilt DD repoducers and a NOS Edisonic. They all sound different! I still think my favorite is my "standard" one that came with my C-19. It has one of your diaphragms in it that I slightly modified and it is by quite a stretch the best performer. What's funny are the Edisonics, they sound nice and loud, but they aren't used often by me.

I'm not looking to argue at all. I enjoy both the phonograph and record sides of the hobby. The little quirks are part of the fascination to me, although I must admit working on Edison reproducers and trying to get the "best" out of them gets very frustrating! I've never had such an issue with any others.

One further thing, Larry, if your Credenza sounds "hollow", you probably need to seal your tonearm and horn as they shouldn't sound like that. Has the reproducer been rebuilt? My Credenza is several times louder than my C-19 and the tone is remarkable. I'm wondering if your Credenza might need a little tweaking.

Sean

[edisonc250]

I know this is has been rehashed over and over..and I dont want to start a debate..it was just a fun thing to do...

[OrthoSean]

Oh, it is fun! Friendly exchanges over sound quality and the variables around it are very fascinating to a lot of us here, too!

Sean

[edisonc250]

Oh and BTW...I rebuilt a Victor #2 reproducer(not the one in my experiment) a few weeks ago, the gaskets were a bit dried but not too bad..u rubbed vaeline all over them and let them sit overnight..clean off excess...sounds great terrific seal and no buzz or rattle..

[larryh]

Sean,

Been out all day in case you wondered where my reply was.. I get your point and I totally understand it, I too appreciate each machine for its variations in the way they perform. But I know what I hear, and at a distance from either machine the realism of the tones of the Edison are better than the competitors to my ear. I love my Brunswick, but it could never approach those amazing tones of the Pipe Organ records by Kinsey, never heard a record close to it. I think some companies had perfected many types of instruments but others were less than desired. The edison seems to come closer to handling many things others can't do as well. If you don't hear that for your self nothing I can do or say will make it so, I don't come at it lightly or to defend all systems as equal, just what is happening here in my home makes me come to that conclusion.

I leave the orthophonic out in this case since it goes about reproduction in a different way of recording and playback. But still many types of music are rivaled closely or even outdone by a strong edison performance.

And yes we do enjoy bantering about our hobby of "Listening" to old records. Of late I have gotten into some Pathés which previously I had avoided mostly. Here too a variation of quality is found. Some records are very fine, while others are weak and rather poor in comparison. All companies share that flaw of early development.

[OrthoSean]

Hi Larry,

Always glad to see we agree!

Yea, I've been into Pathés lately since I have two Actuelle machines now and a large group of Pathé discs came my way with a collection I bought. Another beast entirely! All I can say is, get a great recording and a perfectly level and adjusted machine and watch out! They can sound amazing.

Sean