Have you ever tried spraying shellac?

[EarlH]

You know, I've used conventional spray guns for about 35 years now and have never used a HVLP sprayer until a few weeks ago. My brother bought one and told me I could try using it if I wanted to. I have read where spraying shellac with one of those types of spray guns is actually not a bad experience. So, it of course mentions in the old Victor magazines that they started to spray finishes in 1912 or 1913, so I figured I would try spraying shellac on this XVIII that I'm re-varnishing. One thing is for certain, it really goes on nicely with this HVLP gun. MUCH better than with a conventional gun and very little overspray or anything like that. I am really, really satisfied with how that works. It leveled out well and will really make putting a piano finish back on the cabinet a lot easier. It also didn't leave any streaks in the stain, or brush marks of course.

I always mix my own shellac and always use the de-waxed variety from Shellac Shack. It is clearer and there is less trouble with whatever you use for a topcoat to stick if it's de-waxed. I'm going to give this a few coats of some 1913 varnish I bought a few years ago. I don't honestly think Victor used actual varnish on their cabinets as real varnish it dries SO slowly. (They waited a week between coats in those days using varnish) I think they added something to a shellac based finish to make it slightly more water resistant. Varnish won't be bothered by alcohol or water either and the finishes Victor used in those days are not alcohol resistant. They also mention using paraffin oil if you are having to re-polish a cabinet, and if it was varnish, water will work faster with the pumice or rotten-stone.

I am really happy with this thing, and even though it's important to keep the gun clean with the shellac, it really has made this job a lot easier. If you have a reason to refinish one of these Victrola cabinets and have access to one of those types of spray guns, I would (and will) do it as it will make your refinishing job MUCH easier. The gun I used has the cup on the bottom so it's a lot easier to handle. I tried using one of the gravity feed HVLP sprayers with the cup on the top and didn't like that at all.

[wjw]

I sprayed shellac a few years back with hvlp guns and had a difficult time with it. The guns are top load. Will have to try one with cup on the bottom. I had trouble with orange peel but even at that it was a quick delivery system for finishing some large projects. Was your shellac thinned much and did you use any retarders? The XVIII coming along beautifully.
-bill

[EarlH]

I sprayed shellac a few years back with hvlp guns and had a difficult time with it. The guns are top load. Will have to try one with cup on the bottom. I had trouble with orange peel but even at that it was a quick delivery system for finishing some large projects. Was your shellac thinned much and did you use any retarders? The XVIII coming along beautifully.
-bill

The gun is made by Earlex and puts some pressure into the material cup with a small tube. I didn't add any retarder, and thinned the shellac about the same as I would if I were brushing it on. I don't know what the difference is between the two guns, but it sure sprays out a lot better. Completely different than using that top load gun, I really didn't like that at all. I'm half tempted to spray the varnish, but I know better on that one. Haha! I'd really have a sticky mess.

[dutchman]

I've done many machines with a HVLP system. I too mix my own dewaxed shellac, I mix/spray my shellac at a 1 ½ lb cut. After all the shellac coats are applied I switch the gun over to a different needle/nozzle and finish with 2-3 coats of satin lacquer, all coats are sanded between coats of course. The final process involves hand rubbing with "Deluxing Compound"

I use a Campbell/Hausefeld HVLP which comes with different size needle/nozzle's from Thin to Heavy .

At any rate I'm with you, HVLP spraying is the only way to go in my book. Cheers


Bill K

[EarlH]

Well, this is how it looks after the first coat of Varnish. This stuff was put in the can in March 1913 and is really nice if you can put up with how pre alkyd varnishes are. Its takes over 48 hours for it to set up so dust won't settle in it and you have to wait a week to 10 days or even longer between coats. The old finishing books in those days say you can cut the time in half if you keep your varnishing room at 125 degrees! I don't have that option, so I just wait. However, if you are willing to put up with all of that, it really turns out nice. Spraying the shellac has really saved a lot of time on this thing as it has really gone a long ways towards filling the grain and making the surface level. I do use grain filler, but the topcoats still seem to settle into the grain some and require a lot of sanding. I really am glad my brother talked me into trying that sprayer. I'll probably have to give this two more coats yet before I can rub it out, but I might be able to get by with one.

With that molding around the doors and cabinet sides, it makes these things harder to deal with than most of the Victrolas I've refinished. I don't bother much with piano finishes anymore as they take SO long to do, but on this once, I figured it would be worth it. No point in having all that nice veneer on a cabinet, and then not doing anything to show it off. I really am glad that I decided to do it this way. It's pretty easy to see why mahogany was such a popular wood on Victrolas.

[martinola]

Earl -

Is that ever beautiful or what? The longer I live, the more I need to learn. It would be so cool to get the actual recipe for the varnish in that can. Very nice!
Martin

[dutchman]

Beautiful job.


Bill K

[EarlH]

It's nice when the materials do most of the work! It will still take a few months to get it back together though as the varnish has to be hard enough to rub.

You can find formulas for the kinds of varnish that they used back before WWI, but they really went out of favor for good reasons more than likely. Although the end results are really nice. When Behlen stopped making the rubbing varnish about 10 years ago, that was kind of sad. I called them about it and asked why and they said it was environmental issues, but I have an idea it was more than likely it just wasn't selling very well. Even the Rockhard table top varnish they sell now is urethane. And the table top varnish now might give good results, but I'm not interested in the experiment.

I still have a few gallons of this ancient varnish and it will be more than enough for anything else I feel like putting it on. if you look on the bottom shelves of old paint and hardware stores, and old lumber yards, or even ask them if they have any old varnish. I found around 10 gallons of varnish like that 10-12 years ago. They will usually sell it pretty cheap to get rid of it. Most think it won't dry anymore but it eventually will. Unfortunately those business now give that stuff to the "salvage" stores and they nearly always take that stuff to the landfill. You can add a little bit of japan to speed it up some, but you have to careful about that or it might wrinkle. And if you run into something like "Cooks Rapidry eight hour varnish" Just remember that the eight hour thing does not mean a re-coat time. The eight hours is when (if the conditions are perfect) dust will stop settling in it! It's still a week or more between coats. The slow dry times lets the finish settle out level though. And the painfully slow drying time really is why most furniture in those days really got a form of shellac put on them, and very little was really varnished. Pianos and other expensive furniture would be the main exception.

My thumbnail isn't leaving dents now so I'll be able to sand it down and give it another coat now. Probably in a day or two.

[wjw]

Earl H and Bill K, thanks for the info. Will invest in new sprayer next big shellac project.
-bill

[need4art]

I had done spraying of shellac with a HVLP gun and a normal compressor and found results good, but I bought a complete HVLP system by Fuji and found that I got much better results with both shellac and varnish and used much less material with virtually no overspray.
Abe