Phonograph-Playground Ethics for Kids of All Ages

[JohnM]

Well said, Walt. I apologize to the board for showing my you-know-what in this matter, but I cannot and will not tolerate public personal attacks on myself or others. Is it prudent to say that we are a forum more oriented toward collectors and researchers than dealers? There is such a fine line there . . . does it even need to be drawn?

John M

[need4art]

Holy cow!
how does this take place-how can people keep expending energy on trying to beat someone up about the hobby of phonographs. Wether it is collecting, restoring, repairing, buying or selling or just discussing them unless someone is defrauded or cheated what is there to argue or fight about? There is so much to deal with in this world around us-hunger, lack of clean water, polio,WAR lack of jobs etc. If you have that much energy and want to fight about something -do what I did join Rotary and make a difference! I run a retail business and that is now a fight each day to keep it going in this economy. I work in Rotary because I want to make a difference. I collect and work on antique phonographs because I like the marriage of wood and metal and the vintage music. I have always had a hobby-it helps to keep me centered-but I have never understood why people will fight over something that should be FUN!-there are more important things to fight about and over.
This board seems to have great people who help each other and offer a lot of great advice-do not let us loose or direction.

Keep the faith
Abe

[larryh]

I suppose in some way the thread has already evolved a bit from the topic. I do feel in my case that I am someone who loves old phonographs as well as records, always have, always will. That said, I might deviate from what someone else would do. Although I don't personally know of any major collectors who do not at some point sell some items of their collections. For some collecting is just that, the thrill of the find. Once collected and enjoyed for a period of time it then becomes something to move along in most instances in on my part. My personal situation is that I don't feel the need to own every machine ever made, although I honestly would like to own one long enough to see how it works. I know some collectors who have never parted with anything they personally considered a good item, but do move things they find to be in their minds lesser quality. So to pigeon hole anyone to being either a dealer or a collector is something very difficult in this, and I would guess most other fields. Some things such as my Credenza that is ending tonight I have personally owned since the early 60's, hardly a quick turnover, but I have reached a stage in life where I don't have to own, nor do I have room to own lots of large machines and I wish to reduce my collections to less types of records and machines once again. I say once again, because I have been though this most of my life. I enjoy getting new machines but when they begin to take over my space I want to cut back, thus I become the dealer. I don't feel like a dealer though because to me its like loosing and old friend, but at the same time I am happy to have it go where I know someone will love it too.

In another type of collecting group I belong to they put out a article a while back about the fact that many people were sitting on huge collections of things that they had owned for many years. Put two and two together and they were sort of saying, "your not going to take them with you", so why not dispose of some now and let others enjoy the wonder of them also. Personally I prescribe to that school. After I have owned it and babied it, let someone else do the same. Gee then it makes room for yet another.. (Maybe a nice Edison Console would make me happy?).

[JohnM]

Walt,
I just think we should discuss this . . . I'm not coming down on either side of the debate until I've given this more thought. I'm only trying to understand the dichotomies here: how the board responded to someone that had something to sell, but no knowledge vs. How the board responds to someone that has something to sell WITH knowledge of the item. I'm definitely not talking about the disassemblers, just trying to understand what just happened on the board that prompted much of Michael's criticism as I read it --the allegation that board members "ganged up" on Whittington.

As you said, define dealer, define collector.

John

[EdisonSquirrel]

Walt,
I just think we should discuss this . . . I'm not coming down on either side of the debate until I've given this more thought. I'm only trying to understand the dichotomies here: how the board responded to someone that had something to sell, but no knowledge vs. How the board responds to someone that has something to sell WITH knowledge of the item. I'm definitely not talking about the disassemblers, just trying to understand what just happened on the board that prompted much of Michael's criticism as I read it --the allegation that board members "ganged up" on Whittington.

As you said, define dealer, define collector.

John

As I see it, the issue is not about the collector/dealer continuum, but about our attitudes toward those dealers with no interest in the machines or music beyond their monetary value, while sometimes hiding behind a disingenuous facade of interest.

Rocky

[OrthoSean]

I think you're right on, Rocky.

I don't think (as Walt says) that we have anyone here that hasn't sold a machine / records / parts or whatever it may be in our hobby. I'm guilty. I've done it several times, in fact, and I'm sure I'll be selling more of my "stuff" as I can make the time, but money is not a driving force behind anything I do with phonographs and records.

I don't agree one bit with the sellers that buy machines and part them out, but that's just me. Others may say "Well, I couldn't have found the part I needed otherwise". It is what it is. To me, this is a hobby, not a livelihood, if it were, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't enjoy it as much as I actally do. I have put on my "dealer's cap" from time to time if something out there presents itself to me that I could make a few bucks on, yes, absolutely. I have no issues with that either. I do have issues with "collectors" (really, dealers posing as collectors, there are a few) who do nothing but buy and resell everything they get their hands on. Greed? Perhaps. Fun? Not to me. I enjoy my collection, I enjoy sharing it with others and I also enjoy helping others out as much as I can. The dollars and cents aspect to all of this is very insignificant in my book.

To each their own. This is certainly an interesting topic. I look forward to hearing from others on this.

Sean

[brianu]

As I see it, the issue is not about the collector/dealer continuum, but about our attitudes toward those dealers with no interest in the machines or music beyond their monetary value, while sometimes hiding behind a disingenuous facade of interest.

Rocky

that's exactly what rubbed me the wrong way as well.

[OrthoSean]

I think you're right on, Rocky.

I don't think (as Walt says) that we have anyone here that hasn't sold a machine / records / parts or whatever it may be in our hobby. I'm guilty. I've done it several times, in fact, and I'm sure I'll be selling more of my "stuff" as I can make the time, but money is not a driving force behind anything I do with phonographs and records.

I don't agree one bit with the sellers that buy machines and part them out, but that's just me. Others may say "Well, I couldn't have found the part I needed otherwise". It is what it is. To me, this is a hobby, not a livelihood, if it were, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't enjoy it as much as I actally do. I have put on my "dealer's cap" from time to time if something out there presents itself to me that I could make a few bucks on, yes, absolutely. I have no issues with that either. I do have issues with "collectors" (really, dealers posing as collectors, there are a few) who do nothing but buy and resell everything they get their hands on. Greed? Perhaps. Fun? Not to me. I enjoy my collection, I enjoy sharing it with others and I also enjoy helping others out as much as I can. The dollars and cents aspect to all of this is very insignificant in my book.

To each their own. This is certainly an interesting topic. I look forward to hearing from others on this.

Sean

[richardh]

I would add that I am mostly a collector but am also in the boat of selling things on which to me are insignificant or I don't want anymore and I don't see anything wrong in that. I have been collecting for 31 years now and I would say that 99% of the machines I have ever bought are still in my collection and probably about 90% of the disks. I cant see that changing significantly - although my move overseas is likely to require a thinning out in the shellac department! My machines will go temporarily into storage until we are sure the move will be permanent at which point they will be shipped out to me.

I think these forums work well most of the time and most will bend over backwards to help fellow collectors with parts, help and advice. There are a few occasional glitches on this and every other forum I have belonged to. This in no way detracts from my enjoyment of them. It is usually promptly dealt with and the world moves on. By the time this thread leaves the front page of this forum all the issues (I am sure ) will be long forgotten.

We just have to remember to play nicely with each other and "speak" to others the same way we would like to be spoken to

RJ

[OrthoSean]

Walt -

Agreed 100% with you. This is still the best board out there and hopefully we can all keep ourselves in line. We're all guilty of losing our tempers from time to time. I blew my top more than once on the "old" board, although that type of behavior was coerced by a certain someone.

I still strongly belive we have an amazing group of people here and I'm very glad to be a part of it. I've made some great friends through these boards. Many of whom I never would have known otherwise!

Sean