Indestructible Cylinder Experiment

[Shane]

I'm in the middle of conducting a little experiment with a cylinder I picked up along with the Columbia machine the other day. This is a very nice recording of "Dixie" on a 2 minute celluloid Indestructible cylinder. I'm sure many of you have run into the common problem with these cylinders, where the "cardboard/asphalt/who the heck knows what else" concoction used to make the inner core swells. This makes it impossible to slide on the mandrel all the way. Unfortunately this cylinder has a case of it.

So, I'm assuming that the swelling most likely has come from moisture absorption over the years. I got the idea of soaking the cylinder in water for a few minutes to soften things up, shoving it on the mandrel tightly, and letting it dry in this state. This will give it pressure all around as it dries. I can already tell that the cylinder, in its wet state, will slide into an acceptable position with a little force.

Unfortunately for this cylinder, the metal ring on the beginning end of the cylinder is a bit out of round also, which adds to the problem.

[Brad]

Did you try the experiment Shane?

Personally, I would be inclined NOT to unless the cylinder was totally unusable. I would think that it may not some much be "swelling" of the cardboard and more likely to be "shrinking" of the cellulite. Not sure if water would solve that.

I have a few indesctrables that just make it on the mandrel with considerable effort. I hadn't ever given it much thought.

I wonder if there is a market for an after market replacement mandrel that would accomondate swollen blue amberols and wonky indestructables?

[WDC]

In my opinion I would absolutely avoid the use of water, at least of this quantity. The metal rings will get rusty immediately and make a very nasty experience out of the whole cylinder.
Bending on a mandrel with careful (!!) use of heat (hair dryer, maybe) could possibly work.

Most swollen cardboard cores can be actually reamed out with a regular BA reamer, but be prepared to put A LOT of energy into it.

[Shane]

Yes, this whole experiment was a response to the sheer amount of time and energy it took to ream out the cardboard with a piece of sandpaper. It took forever, and frankly this technique didn't do much good in the end.

As far as the experiment, the first good thing I can say is that it didn't do any damage. As far as the success, it did make a difference. It took this cylinder from something that wouldn't fit on a standard mandrel at all, to a cylinder that would fit on the mandrel with a small amount of force. It doesn't work miracles, but it does seem to improve the usability of these cylinders.

As far as the rusting of the rings goes, I wiped the thing down with a clean rag after removing it from the bowl of water, and I haven't noticed any rusting so far.

"I wonder if there is a market for an after market replacement mandrel that would accomondate swollen blue amberols and wonky indestructables?"

That Columbia machine I picked up the other day has the 6" extra long tapered mandrel for the longer cylinders the company was marketing at the time. It can accommodate cylinders very easily that are swollen. Unfortunately it is only a 2 minute machine.

[antique1973]

I bought "Coon Band Contest" on Ebay. All there was was a picture of an Edison
box so I assumed it was black wax. To my surprise (and delight), it turns out to be
an indestructible. Only thing is I have the same problem, it won't fit on the
mandrel even half way. I am soaking it in water now since I don't have a reamer
anyways. I will let you all know if it works ok.

[Orthophonic]

I have never tried it but I wonder if a cylinder hone on an electric drill may work? They are self centering and may do the job rather nicely but again, I've not tried it. One used for small engines might work but I think those made for honing out brake cylinders will be too small.

[pianolist]

The technique I have used for many cardboard core cylinders that do not fit the mandrel seems to work well and I have found no problems later. I soak the cylinder in water for a minute or two to get the cardboard wet, towel dry the metal rings then start evenly rubbing the cardboard core with my fingers. The cardboard "pills up" and abrades off in small amounts. I can remove as much core material as required to have it fit the mandrel well. When I am satisfied with the fit and have cleaned the loose bits of cardboard out, I place the cylinder in a tabletop convection oven set for around 1oo degrees F. and let it dry for 20 minutes or so. So far, all the cylinders I have done this to play well.

[Phonofreak]

I use a BA reamer. Yes, it's a lot of work, but well worth the effort. I have gotten some good titles at a low cost because of this problem, and made them work.
Harvey Kravitz

[flashpanblue]

Hi All,
I also had a bunch of indestructibles that would not slide all the way on the mandrel. I used a BA reamer. I took 2 different grades of emery paper, one coarse and one fine, wrapped the coarse one first around the reamer and slipped it inside the cylinder and twisted back and forth. It removed the excess cardboard as well as any rust on the metal rims. Next, do the same thing with the fine emery paper and it will polish up the metal rims so that they will not scratch your mandrel when you slide the cylinder on. Using the emery paper also saves wear and tear on your BA reamer. I had two cylinders where the right side metal rims were out of round. It looked like they could have been dropped or crushed some how. I carefully placed the rim edge into a vise using 2 pieces of heavy leather belting to protect them from the teeth. The rims have a spring like quality and if you go gently you can reshape them back into a circle.
Pete

[RefSeries]

This is a common problem with Everlastings but also with Lamberts, both British and American. The shrinkage means that they won't fit the mandrel, and in many cases they have been either mutilated or split.

I play mine using a pair of alloy mandrels which clamp the cylinder on an old shaft, using a Standard A. The records do not slip, and I haven't split one yet. They were cheap to make, the 'belt' end being attached to the pulley with a set screw, the 'mobile' end grips the shaft using a wire spring ring taken from a pen holder. It's all a bit amateur, but it works!

Hope it helps