repair on small columdia phonograph or trash it

[tomb]

Several years ago I brought a small Columbia and could not get it going correctly. I brought it because I had a Columbia record cabinet. I stored it but recently unboxed it to see if my gained knowledge could get it running. It winds up and runs. It goes fast ( like the chip monks )and slows down. The speed control (,also the brake ) is not effective in controlling the speed. It is either on or off. It will run fast then in a few seconds slows down real slow. I tried to adjust the speed pads but no help. The governor has two weight and seem OK. It has been oiled and again I am at a loss. The cabinet is half way decent though.... I think I like my Edison's better. I need the knowledge of the forum. Tom B

[52089]

If the governor is OK (turns properly and has minimal play), one other cause of greatly fluctuating speed can be the play in the turntable spindle. I don't know about the Columbia motor at all, but some motors have a support screw at the end of the spindle. If this is missing or loose, the spindle movement can cause binding and releasing that slows and speeds up the turntable.

On a pillar and plate motor, a similar effect can be caused by a missing or loose collar that restrains the spindle from being lifted up.

[tomb]

Thanks I will check that screw out Tom B

[CDBPDX]

Your description describes a periodic speeding and slowing cycle. If the changes occur at regular intervals, it is likely caused by a gear that rotates once for every complete speed/slow cycle. Look closely at the motor while it is running and see if any of the gears rotation coincides with the cycle. If so, then examine that gear.

If the cycle is not regular, then it is likely an issue with the governor. Remove the governor and check to see if the governor flywheel moves smoothly along the shaft as the weights move in and out. If there is any gunk on the shaft, it will be sticky and can cause these symptoms. Take the weight assembly off the shaft and clean the shaft until it shines. Also clean the gunk out of the flywheel tube that slides along the governor shaft.

Another issue could be the governor shaft bushings. Check to make sure the governor spins very freely with the spindle shaft disconnected. If not, then clean the ends of the shaft and the bushings.

Finally, it could be the governor adjustment that aligns the governor's connection to the spindle gear. Again, this adjustment should have the governor spinning very freely when engaged with the spindle gear. A bit of experimenting might find a better adjustment, but be sure the spring is not connected while doing this. Just spin the spindle manually to find the best adjustment.

Have fun! Cliff

[jboger]

As I understand the problem, the turntable spins, speeds up, slows down, speeds up, etc. in a periodic fashion. Here's how a watchmaker would approach this problem because the spring driven phonograph motor is very like a watch. This analysis takes time, but if you do it thoroughly, it will actually save you time. First disassemble the motor. You do not need to take the spring out of the barrel. Clean all pivots and pivot holes. What you have is a series of wheels and pinions that transmit the power from the mainspring barrel to the spindle. The spindle is the end of the train. Put the spindle back between the plates by itself and check to see if it freely spins in both directions by giving it a twist. You can do that for each wheel/gear, one at a time: Take the spindle out, insert the governor, and give it a spin, and so on. This checks the pivots and the pivot holes. Next you want to put the spindle back in. I assume the spindle gear meshes with the worm on the governor. So put both the spindle and governor back between the plates. Check to see if they both freely turn together. You can give the governor a spin, but you can also rotate the governor slowly and feel if there is any resistance or not. If there is resistance, you can slowly rotate the pair and pinpoint where the problem is. If no resistance, take the spindle out, and insert the next gear in the train that meshes with the governor. In this manner you work your way methodically back to the mainspring barrel. I do this every time I clean a motor/watch. If you find no problem in the entire train, well, then you have at least eliminated possible sources of trouble in your search.

[tomb]

Thanks for the information. Been down for several days and have not been able to try your fixes... Will try Monday after I repair a cracked beam in my garage. I have too much Edison stuff in the attic and do not want the stuff to fall on my Karman ghia. I am a small hoarder in my garage and need to clean it up Tom B

[tomb]

Took longer than I thought to repair the cracked garage beam but I also had to reinforce other beams and it has been in the 100 s here. Too hot to work too long..Thanks everyone for the advice. It was a combination of a gunked up governor and the speed control/brake pads being adjusted out too far from the governor wheel. I guess someone tried to fix the problem by bending the pads out to compensate. It now plays OK.. It is a little tinny sounding so probably the reproducer needs worked on.. Another problem another day but at least it plays. I knocked over one of my Edison Home Bs when moving a 2 by 4 so it will have to be glued up or I will need to replace the oak bed plate. It still runs good though.