Victrola No. 4 Performance

[winsleydale]

Another machine I just got is a Victrola XVII, for which I have just ordered a No. 4 soundbox, again for the sake of volume and depth. I don't have it yet, but am I going to be as disappointed with it as I am with the Edisonic mentioned in my last post? Those of you who have a No. 4 soundbox, please tell me what you think of it compared to an Exhibition and/or No. 2.

[Retrograde]

When rebuilt properly with new gaskets, mica, and isolator, the #4 is a very good performing reproducer. It generally out performs the Exhibition and #2.

The #4 is the brass version, and the #4A is the pot metal version. It's possible for a 4A to be rebuilt but sometimes the metal has become cracked or swollen to the point where it is not possible to do so.

Sitko sells the rebuild parts.

I have several #4 reproducers that I use on pre-orthophonic machines. I like the sound of the #4 over the Exhibition/#2.

[EarlH]

Are you playing electric or acoustic records? I've always thought that Victor developed the #2 soundbox because it sounded better for vocal recordings and the exhibition sounded better with everything else. I don't remember who told me that, but I haven't had a Victrola with a #2 soundbox on it for a long time now and can't say for sure. There used to be a website up where somebody went to the trouble to testing a lot of those theories, but I don't remember what the conclusions were.

I did have one of those "Improved Concert" soundboxes a long time ago and don't remember thinking it was worth what they were selling for at the time and parted company with it. It also makes a difference where your machine is at in the room. The larger outside horn machines are nearly always louder and better sounding than the internal horn machines are. The horn is up higher for one thing but they knew that when those things were being sold new. Even the earlier more expensive radios tended to put the speaker up higher in the cabinet if they could. They probably nearly drove themselves to drink over all of this stuff when it was new and a lot of time money must have been spent trying to improve on those reproducers.

http://www.victor-victrola.com/Soundbox%20Article.htm I think this is the link I am thinking of.

[AZ*]

I have many machines with #4 soundboxes including the one shown in my avatar. All are HMV gramophones that came equipped that way. The HMV "saxophone" horn gramophones of the mid to late 1920's in particular are stellar performers on both acoustical and electrical recordings, and they absolutely blow the doors off any pre-orthophonic Victor or Columbia machine. I do know a chap who put a #4 on his Victor V, and is very pleased with its performance.

One note of advice, however. I find that optimum performance of the #4 can only be achieved with a proper rebuild. I have used both replacement one piece gaskets from the UK that Phonoservice used to supply as well as soft white Exhibition tubing from Sitko. The soft white tubing works best. I always replace the diaphragm even if undamaged as the original ones are usually thick and stiff, and just don't perform as well as a modern replacement. Sitko also sells diaphragms, but you have to ask for a Grafonola diaphragm which is the same diameter as the #4.

Check out Anthony Sinclair's article in the most recent Antique Phonograph journal for more information about the HMV sax machines.

[winsleydale]

The XVII with No. 4 soundbox will be for acoustic records; I have a VV 8-12 for anything electric.

The reason I ordered the No. 4 was that I had been using a VV-X with a No. 2 reproducer, and that sounded quite loud but somewhat harsh. I just moved up to the XVII, but it came with an Exhibition, which to me sounds tinnier (though less harsh) than the No. 2. But then I tried the XVII with a Sonora Superfine soundbox, which has a larger diaphragm than both the Exhibition and the No. 2 - I think the No. 4 diaphragm is probably around the same size. The Superfine had a very nice, rich tone that was shared by neither of the other soundboxes, but I cannot make myself leave a nickel-plated Sonora part on a gold-plated Victor machine. I am hoping that the No. 4 will perform as well or better than the Superfine, the key factor being that it is a Victor product that was a proper upgrade for my machine, rather than a jury-rig.

[winsleydale]

The No. 4 soundbox I ordered is already rebuilt, but I will change the gaskets if I need to. I always rebuild any reproducer I get, unless I am satisfied with the last guy's job. Any original gaskets and isolators are replaced even if the thing sounds okay.

[A Ford 1]

I understand that the degree of compression of the diaphragm gasket sandwich by the screwed in ring may effect the sound in an Edison DD reproducer among other things. I also understand that Steve works to get the best sound out of the reproducers he rebuilds. I think that any costs incurred by having Steve rebuild and adjust your reproducer will be money well spent. I do not think he would change any diaphragm he did not think needed to be changed. The new diaphragms can be damaged by creasing the material. I bought one just to see what was installed in my reproducer and put it back in the container it was shipped in up side down and damaged it trying to remove it before I discovered the container lid could be lifted off.
Best to all,
Allen

[AZ*]

Also be sure to experiment with various needles - steel and/or fiber. With my #4s, regular loud tone needles are far too loud for my taste. I generally use Soundgen's soft tone needles which are similar to NOS half tone needles. I've also had good success with Zwarte Schijf's medium or soft tone needles, depending on the record. It's a bit like Goldilocks. You need to try several types to find the one that is "just right."

[winsleydale]

I usually use Chamberlain medium tones. They seem to work equally well in every reproducer thus far; we'll see if it holds true for the No. 4, as well.

[Victrolacollector]

The No. 4 will sound good if it has new gaskets and a isolator. The No. 4 sounds better and should be easier on records than the Exhibition or the Victrola No. 2 sound box. These No. 4 soundboxes sound best with a soft tone needle.

My last #4A in gold color cost me about 150.00 but had been rebuilt with new gaskets, isolator and diaphragm. When you look at 15.00-25.00 in components plus the fact that many are not rebuildable due to pot metal, I would say it was a deal.