Old Berliner

[tcmeeno]

I bought this at a farm auction years ago. A fellow wants to buy it and I was wondering how rare it is and if it has any value. Is it restorable or better as a parts machine? The motor protests but can be turned by hand. I'm interested in knowing its value and age. Any opinions or help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Terry

[Neophone]

Tcmeeno,

I'd guess that's a "Canadian Victor", or more correctly as the plate says a Berliner Gramophone, probably from the first or second decade of the late century. Obviously it's missing a lot-the horn and tone-arm assembly, turntable and brake at least. I wouldn't part with it for short money. I'd say it is restore-able. I wouldn't want to hazard a guess on it's value as is, I would wait for a few of our more versed members to chime in....


Regards,
John

[tcmeeno]

Thanks John
Are these modelled after the Victor? I thought this one might have been older. It has a 1897 patent, does this mean much?
Regards Terry

[MTPhono]

I believe this is a Canadian Berliner model C, ca 1902. I haven't seen one sell recently so coming up with a value would be difficult.

[gramophoneshane]

If it were mine, I certainly wouldn't part with it for under $500, but then if it were mine, I'd list it on ebay & let the worldwide market determine the final price.

[tcmeeno]

Thanks for the information, I would be amazed to get 500 bucks as I was thinking a lot lower.
Thanks again
Terry

[Lenoirstreetguy]

It's a C Berliner. This one is in oak but they were also supplied in mahogany and I think both were $45.00. The Model C was largest front mount Berliner 10 inch turntable, the carrier arm was 16 inches long and the horn supplied was a 21 inch model. I don't know when they were phased out, but I suspect around the beginning of 1906 but don't quote me on that.
Jim

[gramophoneshane]

Thanks for the information, I would be amazed to get 500 bucks as I was thinking a lot lower.
Thanks again
Terry

Well, I could be wrong, but I really don't think so.
The early Victor triple spring motors (1910??) seem to sell on ebay for $200-300 & occasionally more. Yours being a somewhat earlier & rarer motor would have to be worth just as much in my eyes, and then you've got what looks like a complete & very restorable case to go with it.

A similar situation arose on another forum a year or so ago, where a fellow bought an incomplete Canadian Berliner Trademark model at a yard sale for about $40 or so. It was missing the travelling arm & swivel joint, soundbox, horn & brake. To be honest, I cant remember if it had the turntable or not.
Anyway, because it was very incomplete, a few others were telling him the parts would be impossible to find etc, and they thought the machine was probably worth about $200.
After some discussions about the machine on the forum, I dropped the guy a PM telling him what I personally thought was the best way to go about selling it, & he was very grateful 2 weeks later when the machine sold to a fellow Australian for over $1900.

Now I know your machine & his are completely different models, & a Trademark machine is a more desirable model amoung collectors, BUT your machine is from about the same era, and more than likely sold in far less numbers than the smaller cheaper models, and I'm sure is still a very desirable model.

[tcmeeno]

Thanks again
I'm all excited and maybe should restore it. Apparently Berliner invented or patented the disc machine first and as we all know disc became the industry standard.
Regards Terry

[JohnM]

Actually, Edison patented the first disc format in his tinfoil phonograph patent of 1878, but it utilized a vertical sound modulation groove.

Berliner patented the first lateral (side-to-side) sound modulation groove in a disc format, the origin of the '78rpm' format, in 1887.