Edison Home will not play full cylinder

[white84monte]

I have an Edison home phonograph that I have been tinkering with and could use some advice from the experts. It is currently configured to play four minute cylinders. We bought this machine from an antique store a little over a year ago. The owner of the store bought the machine from its original owner’s son. When we bought the machine it was very dirty and it appears that it was lubricated for many years with some type of graphite grease solution that had since dried and hardened.
When we tried to play the machine the sprint would thump and it would not make it through an entire four minute cylinder without slowing way down or stopping completely. If you would lift the reproducer up off of the cylinder it would take off but as soon as you lower it would slow down and stop.
After reading all of the helpful tips on here I decided to take everything apart and clean it oil it and re-assemble. I have replaced several components along the way.
The first thing I did was to disassemble the entire machine and ultrasonic clean everything to get all of the old dried up grease off so I could see what I was working with.

I sent the main spring assembly out to George Vollema and he replaced the spring and grease.
I replaced the governor shaft as the gear was worn.
I replaced the Mandrel bearing with a bronze busing from APSCO
Replaced the belt
I got all of the replacement parts installed and oiled with a light synthetic oil that was recommended. (I forget the name at the moment)

I got everything re-assembled and without the spring motor attached all of the gearing spins smoothly, the governor weights and spring actuates as you speed up and everything fells like it operates smoothly.
I assembled everything onto the bedplate and assembled it into the case. When I wind the machine up all the way and try to play a cylinder I am right back to where I was when I started this project. The cylinder will spin faster and faster until its flying way to fast. As soon as I drop the reproducer onto the cylinder it starts to slow down and eventually stops.
The threads look good on the half nut and feed screw. Everything seems to spin freely. What am I missing or what should I look at?

Anyone know anybody around Northern Indiana who would maybe take a look at it if I brought it to them?
Thanks for the guidance!

[12jslater]

Have you adjusted the bearings on the bed plate? Or have you adjusted the half nut? Or even the guvnor bearings or have you just assembled the machine without adjusting them?

I made this mistake on my first phonograph a number of years ago, I thought it was broken and let it sit for about a month before I learnt about adjustment and it took off and now plays about three records on a winding that is with its original Spring.

Just keep trying and eventually you will get it working remember that they are very reliable machines and it is just something simple.

[Lucius1958]

Have you tried adjusting the speed control so that the motor does not race when spinning? Often a racing governor can be caused by springs that are too stiff.

Outside of that, I would take a thorough approach to adjustment, as 12j says. If the half nut is bearing down too much on the feed screw, it can slow or stop the machine. Fine governor adjustment is also crucial to performance.

Keep tinkering until you find the right setting.

Bill

[tomb]

A overtight belt could slow it down too.. Make sure the belt is not hitting the bed plate. Wind the motor and check how long it plays without stress. If it runs for 8 or 10 minutes then the problem is probably on top. On the ½ nut adjustment, try backing the small screw that applies pressure to the feed screw out a lot. see if it will run the cylinder out as if it would be playing but there will be no contact between the reproducer and the cylinder. If it goes well then gently adjust the pressure on the feed nut to the feed screw. Adjust it till it just grabs to see if the problem is there. If it still does not play then adjust the governor . Sometimes adjusting the mandrel back and forth for a sweet spot helps too.. If it spins easily on the bearing it should be OK though. Tom B

[white84monte]

Thanks for all of the quick replys!

I did verify that the belt is not rubbing. I look at the gov. shaft bearing to make sure its not pushed in too tight tight. I had to back the felt speed control all of the way off of the disc in order to get it to play at all.

I will look at the half nut information that you described. That is something that I have not looked at.

I figured that it is something simple but I didnt know where to start looking. I will let you guys know what I find.

Thanks.

[benjaminh]

Definetely check the half-nut. In my experience, this is generally the trouble with slowing Homes and Triumphs.

[Dave D]

You said it races. Have you checked the governor? Make sure the end opposite the sliding disc is tight to the shaft. If the screw is missing, it will race. Only the sliding disc end should move.
Dave D

[NEFaurora]

I'd also check a few other things.. Check the Belt tension, Check the reproducer to make sure that it is free of lint, and Most especially check that the Model H reproducer's stylus is coming down on the cylinder record at the right angle. If it isn't on the right angle, It will cause friction and not play correctly. Check the cylinders that you are playing also to make sure that they are clean and free of lint/mold/dirt, etc.. Also, Make sure that when you check the speed of the machine, Make sure that you have a cylinder running on the machine when you do it, then adjust the governor speed. I can't tell you how many people make the mistake of checking the machine speed without a cylinder playing...It's ridiculous. A very common mistake, and then they wonder why the machine runs slow. Go to Ebay and pick up a Digital RPM guage for ten bucks.. You'll be glad you did.. It's the best $10 investment ever. See below:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Laser-P ... 8uXCveMR4Q

and..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Laser-P ... SwLzdWTphj


)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer

[edisonphonoworks]

Did you dis assemble the 2/4 minute gearing and clean and oil that? In general for the top works the play between the new bushing and left, gear bearing is a sheet of paper, if too tight it will bog down, too loose, end shake will result. On top of that, what everyone says about the half nut is very important it is best to loosen the two screws on the half nut, and let it find its place, playing it down the feed screw a bit, and carefully stop in the down position, while on the feed screw and while stopped and in the down position, trying not to move it at all tighten the two screw back up. without a record on the mandrel loosen the height adjustment screw on the half nut , while on the feed screw until it does not move the carriage. Slowly adjust the half nut down and when you just start seeing it move adjust a fraction past that, and that should be the correct tension, any less causes it to repeat when the horn is exerting pressure, any more causes undue stress on the mechanism. If it does not play well doing this, I would suggest a new half nut,and repeat adjustments. Belts should be loose when the tension-er is not on the belt, and the tension-er Should stop and run the machine from ¾ of the way, to half way between the large, bottom drive pulley, and fully tight, if the belt is too tight it will not run properly. Make sure the idler wheel on the tension-er moves freely and if you do put oil on it only a very small drop on each end, and none on the part that contacts the belt, as oil on belts ruins the operation of the machine.

[tomb]

I am restoring a standard C and found the gov. shaft was slightly bent which I gently bent back. Also the rear bearing was worn which was replaced. It now plays well. The Governor shafts sometimes get bent when they are taken out and put in. Make sure you are taking off the brake when removing/ replacing it. Tom B