Our Edison Gem Phonograph - a few questions

[ChrisM]

Hello All, newby here!

I'm hoping to get my wife's (UK) Edison Gem working (Number 20362). She remembers it being in her parent's home from when she was a child. At some point the silver (aluminium?) horn was lost and the machine was left to gather dust for many years.
I've given it a good clean including removing quite a bit of rust and am pleased to report that the motor runs sweet, although I've yet to obtain a drive belt. The problems I can see are:
1. The mandrel shaft collar (I think that's what it is called!) is missing it's grub screw. Can anyone tell me what the thread size is and advise on a replacement?
2. The four base-plate to case retaining thumb-screws are missing. Again, can anyone tell me what the thread size is and advise on a replacement?
3. Am I right that it would have had a 14" horn and that one of the readily available reproductions (in nickel) would be a direct fit?
4. I've yet to work out what I need to do to the reproducer.
5. Part of the winder has broken off (so there is no longer a 'slot' in the end), but it still works.
6. There's a sprung lever brass roller riding on the motor drive pulley. Can someone explain what this does / how it works (is it a tensioner)?

I've attached several photographs including photos of the collar and base-plate screws and would welcome any comments.

Thanks.

Chris







Mounting screw thread size and source of thumbscrew nuts?











Grub screw thread size and source?







What does this roller do?

[Curt A]

The roller on the belt pulley is a tensioner to keep the belt on track... The crank could be repaired by a machinist, but if it is still working, why bother?

2. The four base-plate to case retaining thumb-screws are missing.
It looks like they used nuts of some type to fasten it down, but normally (in the US), the bedplate would be fastened with slotted wood screws.

[soundgen]

Phonograph leather belting on Ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Phonograph-le ... 2626779175

[soundgen]

Edison Bell machines were usually supplied with aluminium horns see pictures this post , although they also sold a wide range of horns at the back of the catalogue

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... gue#p77953

[ChrisM]

Thanks for your help so far.

I've found a photo of a Gem (same design as mine) that was sold on eBay some time ago that shows the base thumbscrew nuts.

If someone could tell me the thread size I thought I could search for something that might work.

[Curt A]

The nuts look like some type of knurled acorn nuts. Search for cap nuts or acorn nuts after you determine the thread size and these could work in the meantime or you could have them machined to match the originals. You could take the case with you to a hardware store and hopefully determine the thread size. Otherwise, some British collector could probably help to find originals from a parts machine... The Edison Bell machine is different in several areas from the US version of the Edison Gem but is a very nice variation.

[edisonphonoworks]

I did note that the stylus is missing from the reproducer. I do not know much else on the British Edison Bell machines.

[ChrisM]

Thanks for all your help
Chris

[Dulcetto]

Hello Chris , For starters , forum - member Edisonphonoworks says that the stylus is definitely missing on the reproducer. IT IS NOT MISSING -- I can clearly see it in your photo !! I think the reason Edisonphonoworks thought it was missing is that he could not see the doorknob of a stylus in the same position as fitted to an American made Edison reproducer -- but in some of the English made Edison - Bell reproducers such as yours is , the stylus is mounted differently and unless one is familiar with the Edison Bell "New Model" fantail reproducer , that person could be forgiven for thinking the stylus is missing. Secondly , your best bet for small screws is a model shop who normally stock tiny size screws of different descriptions. Note the Mandrel collar screw is not actually a grub - screw ( a grub - screw by definition has no head ) but is a small set - screw , usually with pan- shaped head , although any machine screw will of course work as long as the thread fits ! Edison - Bell claimed these machines to be British made , so threads will probably be Whitworth. The acorn shaped nuts were particular to some of the smaller Edison - Bell models such as their Gem , Elf and Imp, but are often missing when these models turn up today . The only way to get correct replacements is to have an engineer make some up but he will of course need an original to copy -- or you may be lucky to find an incomplete machine that can donate parts. Regarding type of horn, a 14 inch horn will be wrong for this model and too heavy , likely to cause excessive wear to the feed-screw or the knife-wheel fitted to the carriage in this model. Original adverts for the Edison Bell Gem show it supplied with a 10 X 8 inch Aluminium flared horn or a similar size fluted and panelled painted tin horn of light construction. Some adverts , particularly in Edison - Bell record catalogues , show the Gem fitted with an 18 inch or 24 inch brass horn supported by a rigid back bracket mounted on the back of the machine , but these would have been extras that dealers hoped the purchaser would extend also purchase. " Serving suggestion " as printed on present- day food packets springs to mind ! Regards Dulcetto

[ChrisM]

Hi Dulcetto

Thanks very much for your comprehensive reply answering my questions. We know that many, many years ago it had a round aluminium horn but had no idea of its size. I've found a few pictures online that show one fitted and your advice suggests that this reproduction should fit well:
eBay Item #272438053252
What do you think?

I've measured the case screws which are ⅛ inch. The gauge suggests they are UNC as the BSW gauge does not give such a flush fit; I've ordered a UNC tap to convert a metric knurled thumb nut as a test. If this works at least I'll have a solution that is not too far from the original.

Sourcing the little collar screw is proving difficult due to it being imperial and so small! I see second-hand shaft collars go for around $20 plus postage (eBay Item #191992831585)! I may 'cheat' by converting a metric collar complete with screw (I'll fit a round-head metric screw).

Lastly I need to read up how the reproducer works. Mine has a clear plastic disc which I think has being punctured in the middle; hopefully there are suppliers of suitable replacements?

Thanks again,
Chris