When did the VV-IV get a "real" horn...?

[Markola]

Maybe one of you can help me out. I’ve searched most of the obvious sites and haven’t been able to find an answer to this…

When did the VV-IV acquire a real horn (like the one on the right) as opposed to the little trapezoidal wood box “horn” on the left?

The one on the left is #24,682 and the one on the right is #398,490 (one of the last “slat-less” ones). There’s a big gap between, and I’d like to be able to narrow down the serial number of the change-over.

(Recently restored the older one and I really like it – it’s a little smaller but a LOT lighter than the one with the cast iron horn throat, and it actually sounds very nice.)

Any info on when this change occurred would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
Mark

[Phonofreak]

The change was around 1917 when the A suffix appeared on the VV-IV-A, VV-VI-A, etc. Also, the motor were changed to the newer configuration.
Harvey Kravitz

[tomb]

Harvey I have s/n 375218 which is a VV IV a ,,, It has a wood sound box and no slats. Is that in that range. I always thought neat without the slats. Tom B

[Phonofreak]

Hi Tom, The VV IV without the slats was only made for a short time. When the A suffix was dropped in 1918(?), then the VV IV went back to the slats until the end of production.
Harvey Kravitz

[tomb]

Thanks Harvey... Did the slats make it play better or redirect the sound?? I do not think it makes it more desirable as most people like the slats. Tom B

[Phonofreak]

To be honest, I heard them both. To me, they sound the same. But then again I'm half-death . The slatless VV IV is more desirable from a collector's standpoint.
Harvey Kravitz

[Markola]

Thanks to Harvey & Tom for the info!

Interesting, Tom's VV-IV (375218) is slatless and has the wood box (no horn) while my slightly-later VV-IV (398490) is slatless but has the cast iron horn, so it looks like maybe the cast iron horn throat was added somewhere during the slatless period? (Which I guess is what Harvey was saying, as that happened late 1917/early 1918.)

I think some of the Victor data regarding suffixes can be confusing... my early VV-IV has a lower-case "a" after the serial number, but my later VV-IV has an upper-case "A" after the model designation. So I'm guessing the VV-IV-A is where the newer motor and cast iron horn were added... regardless of slats or not.

(Personally, I like the look of the slats. And IMO the downward firing slats on the VV-IV help in that they direct the sound down where it bounces off the table/counter/floor before reaching your ears indirectly, as opposed to the upward firing slats on many Victrolas, which direct the sound directly at your face. Louder, but also a bit harsher that way. In my humble opinion.)

Thanks again!
Mark