"INDUSTRUCTABLE" CYLINDERS

[studebakerphonos]

INDUSTRUCTABLE CYLINDERS CONFUSE ME. WHO MADE THEM COLUMIIA, INDUSTRICTABLE, OXFORD, ETC.

IF I HAVE ONE WITHOUT A CASE, HOW DO I DETERMINE THE CORRECT TYPE OF CASE TO USE (I HAVE MIS-MATCHED EMPTIES)?

THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR HELP.

[52089]

The short answer is that they were made by multiple companies due to various mergers and acquisitions. Mainspring Press has a very good book on Indestructibles. You can find it described here:
http://www.mainspringpress.com/book_indestructible.html

[max_phenol]

The short answer is that they were made by multiple companies due to various mergers and acquisitions. Mainspring Press has a very good book on Indestructibles. You can find it described here:
http://www.mainspringpress.com/book_indestructible.html

Well, not totally correct. The book is really great, but it only has the information on two brands that made indestructible (= celluloid) cylinder records in the USA: Indestructible and U-S Everlasting. But of course there were Edison's Blue Amberols and also Lambert's celluloid cylinders. Also there were a few European brands that did celluloid cylinders.

"studebakerphonos", you obviously just meant the indestructible cylinders made by the three companies you listed. These were indeed all identical and once the original box gets lost, it is impossible to say whether it was released as a Columbia, Indestructible or Oxford cylinder. The records were all the same and only the boxes showed the brand. Also to my knowledge it is impossible to identify by catalogue number which record was released under which brand. So, if you seek for a box for this type of cylinder, you can use any of the three. You just have to take care that it is the correct one for either a 2-minute or 4-minute record. However, there have been different labels for all three brands over the years too. And surely an early cylinder will rather match to an early style box and a later one to a later style box. But as there is no information from when to when exactly a box or label design was used, it will be impossible to be 100% sure.

Hope this helps ...

[NEFaurora]

"Everlasting Cylinders" were made by the Albany Indestructible Cylinder Company in Albany, New York (1906,1907-1922 until "The big fire cookout" when the factory burnt down), and also went by the names "Oxford" -Sold by Sears Roebuck Co., the name "Indestructibles", The name "Columbia" 2M and 4M Celluloid (1908-1912), and of course "Everlasting", and then finally "Federal". They were all made by the Albany Indestructible Cylinder Company and went under the different names mentioned above. Interestingly, The very earliest Albany Indestructible Cylinders (Very Late 1906-Eary 1907)were made from recycled Black Lambert Moulds after Lambert sold the Patents to Albany Indestructible. These look very similar to Black Lamberts and are denoted by the Raised lettering on the top rim of the cylinder.

See the story here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indestruc ... rd_Company

http://blog.timesunion.com/chuckmiller/ ... ecord/626/


"U.S. Everlasting cylinders" are made by the U.S. Phonograph Company, Cleveland, Ohio (1906-October 1913). They also went under the licensed name "Lakeside" which was sold by Montgomery Ward Co. under contract.

See the story here:

http://intertique.com/U-S%20Everlasting%20story.htm


)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer

[max_phenol]

"Everlasting Cylinders" were made by the Albany Indestructible Cylinder Company ...

Hi Tony,

That's written a bit misunderstandable. Albany Indestructible took over U-S Everlasting after they went bankrupt and then released their own cylinders in old U-S Everlasting boxes with a new label design. But these actually weren't named "U-S Everlasting" anymore but "Everlasting Indestructible Record" - so, a mix of both brandnames. Albany also took over the deal with Montgomery Ward and that's why later Lakeside boxes have no U-S Everlasting cylinders in it but Albany Indestructible ones.

A brand name that I did not hear of so far is "Federal". What's this please? Do you have a photo of a "Federal" cylinder record?

Thanks,
Helmut

[NEFaurora]

"Albany also took over the deal with Montgomery Ward and that's why later Lakeside boxes have no U-S Everlasting cylinders in it but Albany Indestructible ones."

Helmut, Where did you Read this information?!? I have never heard of this before.. or seen it anywhere. I find it extremely interesting. Can you site your source for the info?


"Federal" or "Federal Records" was the last name that was carried on the boxes of cylinders sold by the Albany Indestructible Cylinder Company, in Albany, New York until the factory accidentally burnt down in 1922 thus ending its cylinder production forever. This info is pretty much well known and/was published quite a few times in many places concerning the history of the company. H.H ANNAND from the UK published the info first I believe in his Albany Cylinder History Book published in 1970. Federal is also cited in the first two URL Weblink articles above.

)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer

[max_phenol]

Hi Tony,

I actually have no official source for this but to me it is quite obvious that Albany Indestructible continued to supply Montgomery-Ward with cylinder records as some Lakeside boxes in my collection have an Indestructible lid label and the matching Indestructible record. I attach two photos that show both variations - with U-S Everlasting rcord and with Indestructible record.

"Federal" was indeed the last name of the company that made the (Albany) "Indestructible" cylinders. But I have never seen either a cylinder box that has the brand name "Federal" on it or at least an Indestructible box that had the company name "Federal" somewhere on the label. I would be interested however to see a box like this, as the boxes are my main collecting focus. Did you ever see one? The change of the company name doesn't automatically indicate that the brand name was changed from "Indestructible" to "Federal". A box like this is also not shown in the Nauck/Sutton book.

Helmut

[OrthoSean]

Folks,

The Federal Record Company was the disc record division of Albany Indestructible. There were never Indestructible cylinders marketed under the Federal name. Being from the Albany area, these used to turn up rather frequently back when you could actually find decent records "in the wild". One of the last times I actually found anything good with a local connection, ironically, was a cache of what I'd almost swear are new old stock 2-minute Albany Indestructibles with correct boxes and tops, there were at least 50-75 of them at a charity shop located about one block up from where the original factory stood on Hamilton Street in Albany. I always thought that was ironic.

Federal kept going after the fire, operating at an address farther uptown in Albany, but I suspect the records themselves were no longer being pressed in Albany.

Sean

[NEFaurora]

"The Federal Record Company was the disc record division of Albany Indestructible. There were never Indestructible cylinders marketed under the Federal name. "

I'll buy that. That makes perfect sense. I think that I do remember reading this somewhere years ago but had just forgotten it.
Thanks for the reminder!

)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer

[NEFaurora]

Helmut, Thanks for the pic!

The 2nd picture of the Lakeside Cylinder box with an Albany Indestructible is quite interesting. I would expect a cylinder like that and its box top to use an "Indestructible" 4-Minute Cylinder Box.... Not a Lakeside Box.. so I'm a little suspicious of the Lakeside box..

Has anyone else seen any Original Examples of Albany Indestructible 4-Minute cylinders & Box tops using Lakeside boxes???!???

I've never seen this before..

I wouldn't go by just cylinder box tops matching up with the Cylinder box bottoms as Many Cylinder companies used the same identical box suppliers as I have found in the past.

Darn Interesting though!


)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer