Monarch Special - kind of?

[Sidewinder]

Bought a cabinet & horn, but am a bit confused on certain aspects of the cabinet when compared to similar Victor models I see on the internet
1.) 3 sides are typical monarch special but the back panel is flat/undecorated
2.) Horn support is offset to one side, like a travelling arm or rigid arm, but size is consistent with a normal bracket
3.) base is smooth profile wheras the MS seems to be carved / pressed
4.) the horn is a really eyecatching (TT Co?) red colour with Victor fitting. (photo not so great)

much appreciation in advance for some helpful tips. Horn support is unfortunately missing.

[estott]

The offset position for the arm would indicate this was a front mount machine

[Sidewinder]

That of course was my first thought but the outline of what was there is rectangular rather than oval. My best bet was rigid arm...?

[Phonofreak]

The cabinet is a Talk-O-Phone Clarke model. The early ones were front mount. The later ones were rear mount. The rear mount versions were off set like the front mount machines.
Harvey Kravitz

[Sidewinder]

Thanks very much! I see they made 2 different base design styles.

is the motor also 1:1 compatible with Victor?

[Phonolair]

The cabinet is a Talk-O-Phone Clarke model. The early ones were front mount. The later ones were rear mount. The rear mount versions were off set like the front mount machines.
Harvey Kravitz

I agree with Harvey, it's a front mount Talk-O-Phone.

Talk-O-Phone motors are not interchangeable with Victor.

Victor Rigid Arm brackets are not offset on thier case, but centered like a regular Victor back bracket. If you had just the early Victor case with only the bracket holes in it. You would not know if there was a Rigid Arm bracket or a regular rear mount bracket originally. The mounting holes and witness marks are the same.

This looks like a nice Talk-O-Phone case. It will be a great project to complete, nice find.

Larry Crandell

[Sidewinder]

You guys are the best. Thanks for your valuable info on this.

[Phono-Phan]

Do you have any pictures of the motor?

[Uncle Vanya]

A great many of those Ohio Talk-O-Phone cabinets were found by a late friend of mine in the Theodore Kundtz factory (where they had been made) in Cleveland, Ohio in 1971 or 1972. When I say "a great many" I mean hundreds. The Clarke model cabinet, the one modeled after the Monarch Special, was found in the greatest number. These were passed on to other collectors and dealers back in the 1970's. Occasionally an unmolested, undrilled example turns up at a phonograph auction, but the great majority of these were fitted with Victrola motors, aluminum back brackets, cylinder horns and re-purposed Victrola tone arms.

Talk-O-Phone did make a few machines with a rear mount, and the rear mount on these machine was offset to the location of the front mount bracket, but with different hole spacing. The rear mount brackets had rectangular bases, rather like those used by Victor but just a bit smaller.

I'd love to see pictures of your machine, for it could be a Frankenphone, or it could turn out to be genuine example of a scarce Talk-O-Phone rear mount machine.

[Sidewinder]

Do you have any pictures of the motor?

Well genius thinking it was a Victor variation was not too concerned with the missing motor as I have a few spare Victor motors......so I have a bigger challenge than expected. Did Talk-o-phone make their own horns?

Here some additional pictures of the horn support mount. As one can see its far too large for a front mount, I think?

as you can see in earlier photo's it has a dealer tag from San Fran.