Crap.......oh!

[Sidewinder]

This weekend's fleamarket visit.



I saw a seller put this on his table from a distance and as I got closer he added
the elbow (Yes, Elvis Presley singing "Walk On, walk on..." usually starts playing in my head at these moments)

Actually the elbow did not really fit well into or onto the horn,
so he kind of balanced it on the top of the horn



By the time I was level with his table the back bracket had made an appearence as well:
Something didn't look right to me - it was not the usual far east back bracket,
but looked rather like a creation from a local blacksmith. 2 things caught my
curiosity. The support holes were much closer together than the typical back bracket
copies, and the tone arm was not one that had once been on a suitcase machine - but
rather more mainland european.



So out of curiosity I asked the seller where was the base. Which was still buried somewhere
in his van. I really wanted to move on, as I was obviously going to miss something better
anywhere else than here.

However a cardboard box quickly appeared. And the price was at a reasonable crapophone
top-end price. So I suppose it reminded me not to be too quick to judge, before all
the "facts" are on the table.

I think that the bracket was added a few decades ago and the crapohorn was there "because
it would sell better with a horn". So my thanks out into the ether to whoever - many years
ago - made the upgrade without drilling any extra holes in the cabinet. ........And left the original
horn support screws in place.

[SonnyPhono]

Great find! Loved the story! Thanks for sharing

[bbphonoguy]

That's a great story, and I can see that the machine itself is a nice antique, but I'm afraid I don't recognize it. Can someone ID it for me?

[brianu]

unless I'm mistaken, it (well, the cabinet any way) appears to be a victor MS or monarch special, from just around 1905/07 or so.

[Sidewinder]

Yes, the cabinet is the interesting thing, the brass horn obviously is crapophone junk & the back bracket home made.

The case however is a style that already appeared in 1902 / 1903 catalogs, and complete should look like this.

[phonophan79]

pics from

http://www.intertique.com/MahoganyMS.html

Obviously not mahogany... looks identical otherwise.

[brianu]

pics from

http://www.intertique.com/MahoganyMS.html

Obviously not mahogany... looks identical otherwise.

ha... that's the rare - if not custom - mahogany one that he's been trying to sell for years for like, 15k, right?

[bbphonoguy]

Wow! Now that I know what it is, I have to say "congratulations" to Sidewinder. That's the sort of thing we dream of finding at a flea market.

[Steve]

Does the base have TWO transfers? If not, what is that on the same panel as where the bracket fits?

The transfer on the opposite side to the winder, looks as though it might have a Recording Angel on it similar to the G & T 'Import' of this model shown below?

Yes, it does pay to wait until the full story has been revealed before making incorrect assumptions.

Luckily for me I have the rest of the machine:

[brianu]

Does the base have TWO transfers? If not, what is that on the same panel as where the bracket fits?

The transfer on the opposite side to the winder, looks as though it might have a Recording Angel on it similar to the G & T 'Import' of this model shown below?

Yes, it does pay to wait until the full story has been revealed before making incorrect assumptions.

Luckily for me I have the rest of the machine:

so is yours essentially the same as the early victor MS (with three-spring motor, etc.)? do you know whether your model also was offered with a rear-mounting bracket (or with, as some victor machines had, the option with extra drilled holes - usually covered by a thin plate - for either to be installed)?