The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I picked up a box lot of Pathé records this past weekend and I am not sure if they are vertical or lateral cut. I checked Baar's book and it wasn't clear. Most of the records are slightly larger than standard 10" and two are about the same size. All are numbered around the one shown below.

So are all Pathés vertical cut unless labeled otherwise?

They're vertical cut.

All the Pathé discs are vertical-cut. In 1920 the label reads "Actuelle" and these are laterals. The vertical Pathé record ran through 1922 and then was discontinued. So for a couple of years a Pathé dealer could stock the same recording in two formats. Big fun for him!

Here is my Pathé, from 1920. Note it also says, needle Cut.

BTW: I now have a scanner. So now I can scan my labels. However, I am still learning, how to use the scanner. It took me four attempts, to scan the label, upright.

I'm not sure if it is this way for other countries, but for the US, I just remember that the ones with the large-size red rooster on the label are vertical-cut. It can get confusing with Pathé, Actuelle, and Pathé-Actuelle records floating around.

And then you've got French Pathés to throw in the mix too, as well as 40's/50's discs from countries like China & Africa
It's normally pretty easy to tell by looking at the grooves themselves.

Not to mention the early etched-label discs....





This is 14", inside-start and plays at 90 rpm....'Ave Maria' plays for 3.05, 'La vergine....' for 2.53.

I have two copies of one Pathé record, 'How Santa Claus makes his toys' b/w 'How Santa Claus distributes his toys' by Gilbert Girard and Russell Hunting, on Pathé 20472 vertical, and Perfect 11154 lateral. The Perfect disc also has the Pathé Actuelle catalogue numbers in the dead wax, 020472A and 020472B.

Pathé's acoustic recordings were originally recorded on large brown wax cylinders, which were dubbed pantographically to produce lateral and vertical disc masters. The performances on these two discs I have are identical. The matrix numbers are handwritten in the original wax and are faintly discernible. The vertical matrix numbers have the prefix T, the laterals N, followed by the take digit.

'How Santa Claus makes his toys' is T.68812-2 for vertical, N.68812-2 for lateral.
'How Santa Claus distributes his toys' is T.68813-2 for vertical, N.68813-2 for lateral.

Recorded circa November 1920.

In fact Pathé made the largest discs of any manufacturer--20". These played at 120 rpm. These giant discs were intended more for concerts where someone exhibited their machine; larger, faster spinning discs played louder.

Here's a YT clip of a 1910-era machine playing one of these discs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvbkSvGMJSQ

Here's some lateral labels from India, France & China.

Those vertical (rooster on the label) Pathés are a bear to try and track without the proper stylus.

The grooves are very wide and shallow, and can easily lead your needle to jump across.

Great label examples, guys! (I really need to get back to working on the TMF Label Gallery & Guide...)

Shane: any clue what the Chinese label says?

— MordEth