Earliest Diamond Disc Record Storage

[Valecnik]

The earliest A series diamond disc machines have individual wooden dividers to separate each record. I've seen a few of these and there's no indication of any felt lining or anything like it ever having been there. The wood is unfinished and fairly rough. Also they are so close together that it's impossible, or almost impossible, to slide a diamond disc in a sleeve into the slot It's just too tight. The only way to make use of them is to slide an unsleeved record into the slot.

Could this really have been Edison's intent? Did they think their new discs were so tough that they could take that abuse? Finally, what about the early diamond discs which came in the highly decorated boxes? Were they designed before any record storage was contemplated or is there any sort of cabinet that was designed for storing the boxed records?

For those of you not sure what I'm talking about, see the picture below.

[larryh]

If the wood slats are smooth and finished then I can see the record might be safe to slide in the opening, no worse than heavy paper only not flexible. But if its rough wood then it would probably be a problem.

I know that the common thought is that storing records without sleeves is bad for them, but I have had tons of fairly good records piled in stacks for many, many years and as long as no grit kind of dirt gets between them they seem to do fine. I sure can't "Hear" any difference in them. I will say that I do wish to have my Edisons in sleeves if for no other reason than that they don't roll off the shelves if stacked vertically.

Larry

[hillndalefan]

Hello, Larry!
My A-250 has the wooden dividers you are talking about, and they are both unfinished and unstained. They are sanded smooth enough not to be a problem. The upper drawer can only hold 10" records, the lower drawer can hold 12" records that Edison made only for samplers and long-play use. The wooden slats in the lower drawer are scooped [low in the center] so that it is easy to select a 10" disc in that drawer. My biggest problem when I tried to put records in with the sleeve on, was that when there was a label hole in the sleeve, that tended to become caught on the bottom of the wooden slat and get ripped when it was pulled out. As a result, I don't do that anymore. The later drawer with only a few dividers, allows for sleeves quite well, but you still have to cut the bottom corners to fit the drawers Bob Ault

[larryh]

Hello to you as well Bob.

I have received a couple batches of records that had the covers cut to fit the drawers. In fact I think I saw some kind of line on the cover that said to "cut here" for use in the drawers? I think they look a bit odd that way, but it works. Hope all is well.


Larry

[Lenoirstreetguy]

There's my fantasy machine! But speaking of the DD's in the presentation boxes,years ago a friend of mine in Maine found one of the earliest A 250's. It came with quite a number of discs in the presentation boxes, meaning his machine was one one the very earliest that were sent out to the major dealers in late 1912 to serve as demonstration models. I seem to recall..and I may be very wrong... that the boxed records fit into the drawers of that machine. This would mean the drawers lacked the v shaped bottom of the later storage drawer and had wider spaced dividers than the one shown here. Has anyone seen one like this or was I hallucinating?

Jim

[ColoradoPhonograf]

Bruce,

My A-250 is a bit later but has the indentations where the dividers would go as in your example. This one has a divider about 6 spaces apart in the front two sections and about 7 spaces apart on the back sections. The dividers are locked into position with a strip of wood on the top side.

It would be hard to retrieve the records with all the wooden dividers in place like your machine.

I have several Edison DD sleeves with the ---Cut Here--- stamped on the lower corners to fit into the cabinet

ColoradoPhonograf

[Brad]

The earliest A series diamond disc machines have individual wooden dividers to separate each record. I've seen a few of these and there's no indication of any felt lining or anything like it ever having been there. The wood is unfinished and fairly rough. .....

I don't have any examples of what you and Larry are referring to in my collection, however, one thing to consider wrt to the roughness of the wood: Unfinished wood will absorb moisture and moisture will raise the grain. Over the years, a seemingly smooth board will start to feel rough as the repeated moisture absorption/drying cycles raise the grain. It is highly likely that in the original state, these slats were very smooth.

[Valecnik]

Hello, Larry!
My A-250 has the wooden dividers you are talking about, and they are both unfinished and unstained. They are sanded smooth enough not to be a problem. The upper drawer can only hold 10" records, the lower drawer can hold 12" records that Edison made only for samplers and long-play use. The wooden slats in the lower drawer are scooped [low in the center] so that it is easy to select a 10" disc in that drawer. My biggest problem when I tried to put records in with the sleeve on, was that when there was a label hole in the sleeve, that tended to become caught on the bottom of the wooden slat and get ripped when it was pulled out. As a result, I don't do that anymore. The later drawer with only a few dividers, allows for sleeves quite well, but you still have to cut the bottom corners to fit the drawers Bob Ault

Bob, Very interesting indeed. The bottom drawer of the A300 pictured above holds ONLY 12“ records. 10“ records fall partially through the bottom. The seriál no. is 2508 if I recall correctly. Are saying your bottom drawer will take either 10 or 12 inch records? What is the seriál no of your machine?

Below is a pic of my oak 250. It has the type of „swooped“ bottom drawers you speak of but it only accomodates 10 inch records. The top of a 12 incher hits on the above drawer. SN is 4165.

The last picture is my mahogany 250 with a more civilised systém, 10 wooden dividers with paper tabs between, each compartment holding 10 records. I think this system was used all the way into the C250 and works great. You can drop them in with or without sleeves. This one is quite late, SN 12887.

Thanks alot!

Serial number 4165 with individual "curved" dividers accomodating 10 inch records only

A250 Serial no. 12287 with the later storage system used in B and C250 and other later machines.

There's my fantasy machine! But speaking of the DD's in the presentation boxes,years ago a friend of mine in Maine found one of the earliest A 250's. It came with quite a number of discs in the presentation boxes, meaning his machine was one one the very earliest that were sent out to the major dealers in late 1912 to serve as demonstration models. I seem to recall..and I may be very wrong... that the boxed records fit into the drawers of that machine. This would mean the drawers lacked the v shaped bottom of the later storage drawer and had wider spaced dividers than the one shown here. Has anyone seen one like this or was I hallucinating?

Jim

Jim, I’d love to see one like this. They may well have existed but must have been very very early. Perhaps someone else can comment further.

Bruce,

My A-250 is a bit later but has the indentations where the dividers would go as in your example. This one has a divider about 6 spaces apart in the front two sections and about 7 spaces apart on the back sections. The dividers are locked into position with a strip of wood on the top side.

It would be hard to retrieve the records with all the wooden dividers in place like your machine.

I have several Edison DD sleeves with the ---Cut Here--- stamped on the lower corners to fit into the cabinet

ColoradoPhonograf

ColoradoPhono,

I wonder if your machine was intended to have individual dividers and a bit later in the manufacture they realized that the individual dividers were problematic and abandoned them? It would also be interesting to know your serial number.

All, All interesting stuff but we don't seem to be certain re. an answer to the initial questions, although we've speculated on it to some extent.

That is; Did the Edison folks really intend to put bare records between individual unfinished wooden dividers? Did they think their new discs were so tough that they could take that abuse? Finally, what about the early diamond discs which came in the highly decorated boxes? Were they designed before any record storage was contemplated or is there any sort of cabinet that was designed for storing the boxed records?


Thanks alot!

[hillndalefan]

The variations in these machines amaze me! My A-250 in mahogany is SM 8956, and has exactly the kind of dividers you show in your oak A-250, but the lower drawer is deeper and can accomodate 12 inch discs comfortably, while still being convenient for 10 inch ones. Apparently, nothing was standardized at Edison until the C- series of Diamond Disc machines. Bob Ault

[Valecnik]

The variations in these machines amaze me! My A-250 in mahogany is SM 8956, and has exactly the kind of dividers you show in your oak A-250, but the lower drawer is deeper and can accomodate 12 inch discs comfortably, while still being convenient for 10 inch ones. Apparently, nothing was standardized at Edison until the C- series of Diamond Disc machines. Bob Ault

It really amazes me too. So in this thread we have:
- A300 sn2508 accomodates ONLY 12" in bottom drawer
- A250 sn4165 accomodates ONLY 10" in bottom drawer
- A250 sn8956 accomodates 10 and 12" in bottom drawer
- A250 sn12887 different filing system as on some B250/C250 models, (I assume)