Problems with lacquer finish.

[larryh]

We had a discussion recently about lacquer finishes.. I mentioned I had pretty good luck using brushing lacquer on my London Console. That was over the original scuffed finish.
Now for some reason I am fighting with the top of a William and Mary console. The thing is very dark and the top has been badly mistreated as far as the finish goes. It has a lot of whitish splotching in the finish. First I tried to clean it up and put a bit of stain over it but everything I did still retains that cloudy look under the finish. Finally today I did what I didn't want to do and removed the finish from just the lid top, and cabinet top. Paint remover resulted in a white filmed mess and after about three applications it looks somewhat clean after washing with paint thinner, but when it dries its back to white film like coatings. So far the dark color has pretty much remained, I am afraid that if I have to start sanding or scrubbing much more I will lose even more of the color. I have a feeling that even when I recoat it if I leave it like it is I will have a mess with all that cloudy finish effect showing though? I know some finishes will clear up when recoated, but so far this one seems to stay cloudy looking.
I know its not original but I think I am going to use a poly finish on it as I had really good luck using it over a lacquer finish on an early radio cabinet.
Any thoughts on why I keep getting that film when it dries?

Larry

[Brad]

Larry,

Sounds like you are describing "blush" which occurs in laquer and shellac finishes are is caused by moisture. If any of the products you are using on the finish contain water, this could be the cause of your problem.

There is a lot written on the web. Check this out to start with and then you can google for more info: http://home.howstuffworks.com/how-to-re ... rfaces.htm

Let us know what you try and what the results are. Before and after pictures are always nice

[larryh]

Brad,

Yes I should have taken some photos of the machine before I started because it was close to a being what most would have considered as a non savable finish . Lots of paint splashed all over the thing and the lousy looking top. Thankfully the wood is pretty sound. The bottom tie piece is coming apart in the center and the ball feet are loose. Once I figure out this top I am going to remove the ball feet to be able to get the tie part off the cabinet so I can reglue the center which is coming apart.

I will try and get a photo of it in the stage its in tomorrow when the lighting is better in the garage. I really don't think there is any water coming in contact with it at this point as the humidity is at 25 outside today they say and I used thinner as the clean up for the paint remover. Still it just turns white even with repeated cleanings and washings?

Larry

[AllWoundUp]

"William & Mary", is that a Columbia Period Grafonola? I have a Queen Anne and the finish on the top was pretty bad. I was able to strip the finish off with steel wool soaked with lacquer thinner (and lots of paper towels), took it down to the wood but did not effect the stain. Now I just have to re-laquer it. the finish on the rest of the cabinet is in pretty good shape so I'm planning to leave it alone. I can post pictures if anyone's interested.

[larryh]

I would have thought the columbia was a shellac finish? Not sure if lacquer thinner would remove it or not. I just know I end up with a white film on the surface every try so far at getting rid of it. Tomorrow I will get a photo or so of it.

Larry

[JohnM]

Try brushing it with xylene. It is very 'dry' and will penetrate the finish and replace any moisture. It will soften the finish until it has evaporated away at which time the finish can be steel-wooled and further built up or polished. Xylene is good to remove water rings. Work on level horizontal surfaces only and be careful not to let it run onto parts of the finish you don't want to work on. Use a good natural bristle brush (not the cheap kind where the bristles come out and get stuck in the finish) and treat xylene with respect (organic cartridge respirator, ventilation, away from combustion source, nitrile gloves).

[larryh]

Here are some early morning photos of the machine. The white is I guess just very stubborn to remove finish. I am afraid that by repeated attempts to get if all off I may loose the original color which is already being worn down in places and was really pretty much shot in a few before I started.

[OrthoFan]

I had a slight problem with surface blushing when I re-lacquered a portion of a Credenza lid, several years ago. Following a friend's suggestion, I applied a few drops of Old English Scratch Cover to the area, and rubbed it with fine steel wool. This got rid of all of the white streaks.

You might want to test this on a small area of the lid. (Lemon oil or Linseed oil should work in place of OE Scratch Cover.)

This method, btw, is mentioned on several sites. I spotted this reference, for instance --


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FROM: http://factoidz.com/how-to-repair-the-f ... cabinetry/

Blushing: Blushing, which is a white haze over a large surface or an entire piece of furniture, is a common problem with older shellac and lacquer finishes. The discoloration is caused by moisture.

Buff the surface lightly and evenly with No. 0000 steel wool dipped in linseed oil. Work with the grain of the wood, rubbing evenly on the entire surface, until the white haze disappears. Then wipe the wood clean with a soft cloth, apply two or three coats of hard furniture wax, and buff the surface to a shine.

Blushing can sometimes be removed by reamalgamation. If the surface is crazed, reamalgamation should be used instead of steel-wool rubbing.

If neither rubbing nor reamalgamation removes the haze, the piece of furniture must be refinished.

[larryh]

Update,
I went at it with more mineral spirits and 0000 steel wool and rather aggressively scrubbed it. It still has a white haze but the more obvious places that were evidently remaining finish were reduced considerably. When it was wet with the sprits it looked pretty good and didn't seem to show the under white much. Before I came in for lunch I took a bit of alcohol brown stain I had and wiped a swatch across the lid to see if when it dried it would cover the problems. Know more later.

Larry

[larryh]

First finish I put on went on nicely but the top was awful in a bight light, which didn't show in dull lighting. So I stripped it again and used a dark walnut oil stain the second time. The brushing lacquer was a chore at best. The more coats I put on (5) the worst it wanted to look. The 4th coat looked like a patch work quilt of splotchy whitish patches. But in desperation I purchased yet a third can of lacquer which was fresh and over coated it once again. That did the tick and when it all dried it came out pretty good and the right color. I had thought it would get rubbed down but I read that Semi gloss shouldn't be rubbed as it can turn into a mess, and I had enough for one project thank you. I have an extra set of knobs for the missing two on the top that were off a london console and nickel finish. The two original on the doors are more a bronze effect. I used the same oil stain to go over the two nickel ones and am letting it dry after which I will coat them with shellac. I think they are close enough now to the originals that they won't be two obviously changed.

Over all I like it a lot. It was the first style Edison I ever owned way back in about 1960. I have wanted one for some time and when a trade for a london model upright I had came along I was happy to have the William and Mary once again. It took a lot of tinkering to get the parts adjusted properly but it now seems to be doing very well. Even the original diaphragm not rebuilt is surprisingly good. Probably the best I have had. Good for my comparisons for sure. Only thing I have noticed it do which is a bit puzzling is that on a couple black label records it has wanted to drag a bit. I notice this motor has the two weight governor, I don't know if that could be an issue, I doubt it. Most likely something isn't quite right with the oiling I haven't found?

If anyone has had any success in fixing those cardboard dividers which in this machine had the covered edges all coming loose and torn, I would be afraid to put records in it the way it is. I am wondering if maybe I can somehow get at the covers enough in place to put some glue behind the and clamp them down. It won't straighten out he warped ones though I don't think. Not sure how that section even would come out if I wanted to.

Larry