A Heavy Topic

[Chuck]

Due to a couple of other topic threads on this
board, I've decided to start one here which is related
to, but not directly "on topic" with those other threads.

Recently someone was asking about record wear possibly
caused by playing Diamond Discs with an Edisonic
reproducer. I commented about the increased wear
caused by the increased weight.

Then, more recently than that, there's a thread
about a cylinder Diamond D reproducer with a huge
weight on it. I made a few comments about that too.

But for right here and right now, I wanted to add
some thoughts I have about these heavy weights:

It dawns on me that when looked at in the historical
perspective looking back to the early brown wax
cylinder days, even before horns became the regular
way to listen to them, that there's been a steady
progression towards more and more weight all through
the years.

This can clearly be seen when an early Standard Speaker
or Automatic reproducer or recorder is closely examined.

Back in those days when listening tubes were very
common, the records were soft wax, the weights were
relatively light. Kind of a dainty quality to the
whole system back then. Recordings were not real
loud and blasty.

A bit later on, the Gold Moulded records came
out. They are harder wax, recorded much louder.
Model C reproducer with new trunkated stylus shape
and a heavier weight was introduced to play these
new records loud and clear.

Later still there were the Blue Amberols. Harder
yet, and yet more weight on the "Diamond" series
of reproducers.

Meanwhile, the Diamond Discs were being made
of extremely hard material made to stand up to
an extreme amount of weight.

Later even still after all of that, then the
Edisonic an the Dance reproducers came out
with (you guessed it)....even more weight!

Then we have the aforementioned rare Diamond D
cylinder reproducer with the absolute biggest weight
possible that would fit within the given space limitations.

It started out light and dainty back in the brown
wax, hearing tube days.

Then, as things progressed, we see several iterations
of weight, weight, more weight being added.

All designed and made by a deaf guy!

Now I am not knocking anything here. I like them
all and am interested in the history and the preservation of it.

But the concept of weight, weight, and more weight
all made by a deaf guy does strike me kind of
funny, almost like some sort of a standup comedy
routine!

Just wanted to kick this idea around a little bit
to find out what thoughts anyone else may have
about it.

[phonogfp]

The "deaf guy" probably had relatively little to do with the design of Edison reproducers after 1890. Blame Peter Weber and John Conable.

Columbia also gradually increased the weight/pressure of the stylus on its cylinder machines through larger, heavier reproducers and spring tension (not to mention the Higham reproducer).

Additional weights were also offered by aftermarket companies around the world. As record hardness increased over the years, the weight could be increased without altering the volume/wear ratio to the point where it would damage sales (except perhaps in the case of the Edison wax Amberols).

George P.

[donniej]

It would make sense that weight would be increased gradually, to make sure that there's adequate testing. It's also a good way to sell more reproducers to existing customers.

[Chuck]

George and Donnie,

All very valid points! Thank you for posting those.
Hey George, while we are on this subject, here's a
related question maybe you can answer:

The combination 2 minute/ 4 minute selectable
"turn over" reproducer for the Amberol 1A machine
is a model L? Or is it M, I always forget.

Anyway, didn't that one have customer complaints
regarding excessive record wear on wax cylinders?

That one was offered with the cut-down trowel weight,
is that correct?

And also I'd like to hear from
anyone out there who has opinions on the differences
in sound, or the superiority of a model "O" reproducer
compared to the L or M, which ever one that is.

Anyone ever make a definitive side-by-side
comparison of the sound quality of these?

[phonogfp]

The combination 2 minute/ 4 minute selectable
"turn over" reproducer for the Amberol 1A machine
is a model L? Or is it M, I always forget.

That was the Model M. The Model L was supplied with the Amberola 1A from late 1909 until May 1910, when the M became standard equipment. (The Model L was also supplied with the Opera and Amberola III until the Diamond A appeared for Blue Amberol cylinders.)

Anyway, didn't that one have customer complaints
regarding excessive record wear on wax cylinders?

That one was offered with the cut-down trowel weight,
is that correct?

At first the L was built with a full circular weight (as was the O), but the customer complaints of excessive wear caused the design to be changed to the trowel-shaped weight on both the L and the O.

George P.

[Chuck]

Did the model M ever get the lighter trowel weight?

[soundgen]

It's quite interesting with weight on the record , if you look at a B reproducer for brown wax cylinders you would think the weight which is very heavy would be a problem , but go to a C with a much lighter weight and this produces a much greater force on the groove as the sapphire is smaller , I am told this is 4 times the weight per unit area ! which is why it isn't a good idea to play brown wax cylinders with a C , go now to an H and I am told this is a further 4 times the weight per unit area of a C , making it 16 times the weight of a B ! so on to a smaller diamond ? presumably even more weight per unit area ?

[phonogfp]

Did the model M ever get the lighter trowel weight?

Yes, and it seems to me that all the Ms I've seen have that trowel-shaped weight. I would expect there are Ms with the circular weight, but I can't remember seeing one.

George P.

[OrthoSean]

Did the model M ever get the lighter trowel weight?

Yes, and it seems to me that all the Ms I've seen have that trowel-shaped weight. I would expect there are Ms with the circular weight, but I can't remember seeing one.

George P.

Here’s my M with the round weight.

Sean

[phonogfp]

Thanks Sean!

George P.