THIS JUST IN--Vulcan Records now making 7" discs!

[VanEpsFan1914]

So last night I got an email that Vulcan had five new 7" discs out, 78rpm, playable on gramophones with the old steel needles.

Great ragtime titles, too, and vintage recordings. They sell for 18 pounds apiece, so while they're not free, they're a nice alternative to many older worn-out discs we find on eBay.

I tell you, they'll bring back phonographs soon enough!

[WDC]

It's good to see the outcome after almost a decade of ongoing discussions. The wear tests I did were quite promising even after 120+ plays. However, the current market saturation will be a challenge to overcome.

[VanEpsFan1914]

Market saturation: You mean Don Wilson? He went from zero to a Berliner jobber in what, two years? It's pretty amazing what he's managed to create with resin and records and I hope he keeps experimenting.

I was glad to see some vintage ragtime titles on Vulcan Disc Records. Their famous Cylinder Records play very nicely on my machines, and I wish I had a bunch more of them.


I think modern music is a must as well. If they can make like an 8" record, like the old British dance band 78s on the "Broadcast" and I forget what other labels, that will be a good thing. 1927-1933 style jazz would help sales, too. 7" just doesn't play very long, but an 8" with a little small label can do like an old 10" Victor circa 1910-1915 with the large label on it. About two and a half to three minutes, generally, is what you get out of them.

Exciting news!

[WDC]

With the specific niche of such discs, the novelty factor has disappeared by now. But I mostly mean the phonograph-related market as a whole, not just discs. There is a clear "filled-up-condition" that has evolved within the last 5 years, therefore not an easy time for an opening up of new markets fields. But I might be proven wrong, hopefully.

[Victrolacollector]

With the specific niche of such discs, the novelty factor has disappeared by now. But I mostly mean the phonograph-related market as a whole, not just discs. There is a clear "filled-up-condition" that has evolved within the last 5 years, therefore not an easy time for an opening up of new markets fields. But I might be proven wrong, hopefully.

Absolutely, I agree.... I am glad that you and many other collectors have brought us the resin type cylinders and now Discs. Last weekend I sent Vulcan an email and did receive a response, I suggested the release of Star Spangled Banner, Stars and Stripes, Turkey in the Straw and Take Me out to the Ballgame. I think that these early discs are nice, but really only a handful of popular tunes would be enough. I may be wrong, but for the average newbie and for demonstrating purposes, it would be the popular tunes that would capture interest on the early 1900’s recordings. I also suggested some releases like the Charleston etc. from the 1920’s etc. that probably would be mostly desired. I think Edison laterals, and hot artists of the 20’s would be sought after.

I love the hobby and know many of us love these new recordings. But it seems the sales of these new cylinder records are dwindling on auction sites like eBay. I realize the costs to put these in production is not cheap and it may be getting more difficult to recoup the investment.

[OrthoSean]

Market saturation is a very valid point, though. With the great amount of "new" old stuff being offered right now compared with the number of collectors actively wanting them, it seems pretty obvious that the supply is starting to be greater than the demand. As much as I enjoy all of these new releases and also as much as I've tried to support all of the parties putting them out, I can afford only so much and certainly not everything appeals to me. I'm sure it's the same for many of us. I remember a conversation I had a few years ago with a collector who's in his later 50s, when I showed him some of Norman's cylinders that I had and played a couple, he was blown away by them. When he asked about how much they were, he immediately lost interest after I told him, so you've also got people that just won't spend the money, but if you wanted to buy something from him, I assure you it would be top dollar. I say you can't take it with you.

Things to ponder...

Sean

[VanEpsFan1914]

I have to confess, the whole time, I've been cheating. I'm not a real collector. I don't have a collection insofar as I have a bunch of old phonographs I restore and enjoy.

5000-series BAs with sticky-voiced flapper girls mean nothing to me, especially at what they sell for. Berliner records are curiosities I would sell immediately.

For me, it's operated like a heritage railway. Vintage machinery is acquired in bad shape, fixed with a prodigal amount of volunteer labor, and run on a shoestring budget for recreational purposes.

If the market's going to be saturated, let's not cram it full of "Turkey in de Straw" stuff.

REGARDING:

Vulcan cylinders. Nice stuff. Pricey, dependent on the value of the pound against the U.S. dollar. I prefer to buy theirs.
Edisonia Records: My favorite label. Thank you Mr. Lomas for making B.A. Rolfe records again, I would like to buy more but find them very pricey. Lots of fun 1910s titles in this list, which include nice band selections.
Berlin Phonograph Works: While these are doubtless fine cylinders, I can't afford them. One record is equivalent to three or four days of my take-home pay.
So they're likely out of the question--and that's fine. I have an Amberola 30 and an ancient Edison Fireside A. Will I hear the difference on a 1909 phonograph? Probably not.
Don Wilson's replicas: The Berliner 78s are a historian's dream. Not everyone wants them and I would have a hard time storing them, but they're long overdue to be back in stock. He's got lots of good music on 10" as well. I tend to buy original Victor records from the 1910s and 1920s instead, though, as they were plentiful and offered far greater variety in selections.

Another point to ponder: vintage 7" records sound really bad. So do the phonographs that played them, and most collectors don't even bother changing the needles on the old front-mount machines. (At least so I have seen at the local phono club swap meets.) If the 7" machinery is to survive, we will need the early music.

MODERN RECORDS I WOULD BUY:

First: Songs like "Happy Days are Here Again," "A Great Big Bunch of You," "Smile, Darn Ya, Smile" (famous from the movies)--these everyone likes. Note they all date to the early 1930sish. "I'm a Member of the Mid-Night Crew" is not only a great 1909 Eddie Morton record I don't have yet, it's also from a webcomic called Homestuck. Dumb comic IMHO but lots of people watched MusicBoxBoy's video of it because of the comic, and several commented they'd buy the machine & record...

Video games such as Bioshock Infinite and the Fallout series use antique Edison and Victor recordings in the soundtrack. Polk Miller & the Old South Quartette's "Bonnie Blue Flag" of 1909-1914 made it into Bioshock Infinite. Lots of later music is in Fallout--there are even online radio stations to play that sort of music. The rising generation (or, more accurately, nerd culture!) loves them some vintage music. But it's easier to set up a small AM transmitter or add Bluetooth to a tube radio than to buy a broken Victrola, fix it, and wait on 78s.

Artists I would be interested in hearing:

Ramona Baker (the ragtime piano girl who is famed all over YouTube)
Matt Tolentino (He's out on Vulcan)
More classical guitar by Mr. Whoever-it-was that recorded La Carnauba Waltz for Vulcan
Blackbird Society Orchestra--Don Wilson has their "mahogany hall stomp" on 78 and I am looking to buy a copy someday, but logistics now...ugh.

Cheesy old brown-wax-era style stuff, I would not buy at once. Arthur Collins is pretty good, though. Ada Jones continues to be a perennial favorite, with her flirty voice and humorous songs--no kiddie songs or dialect songs, please. She is at her best on her own.

There is good music being made today, too, and that needs to be considered.


Furthermore (aw, really?) I don't know whether everyone of these "new people" we're trying to attract to the hobby wants to buy an ancient phonograph that sounds exactly like 1902 when they play a record. Lots of people might appreciate Orthophonic-era technology. We need to remember electrical records as well, and keep a mix of acoustic-style and electric-style discs.

Oh well, just a few thoughts.

[OrthoSean]

vintage 7" records sound really bad. So do the phonographs that played them.

If you're saying that, you've never heard a good, clean 7 inch disc (or one of Don's copies from a clean original) played on a front mount with a properly rebuilt reproducer, Berliners aside, they don't sound very good regardless, but most people who own a Berliner machine knows enough to play something else. Something like a Victor R or Zonophone Home would sound just as good as your Victor III.

And to your point about money, well, you've reinforced my point. There are lots of people that just won't spend it or don't have it. When I was in my early 20s, I could barely afford my rent, gas for my crappy old car and food.

Sean

[Victrolacollector]

vintage 7" records sound really bad. So do the phonographs that played them.

If you're saying that, you've never heard a good, clean 7 inch disc (or one of Don's copies from a clean original) played on a front mount with a properly rebuilt reproducer, Berliners aside, they don't sound very good regardless, but most people who own a Berliner machine knows enough to play something else. Something like a Victor R or Zonophone Home would sound just as good as your Victor III.

And to your point about money, well, you've reinforced my point. There are lots of people that just won't spend it or don't have it. When I was in my early 20s, I could barely afford my rent, gas for my crappy old car and food.

Sean

That’s sad but true, when I was in my 20’s that was also the issue. The costs to make these new records is not cheap but if only there was a way for these makers to get them made by a company at a cheaper cost. If the cost could be brought down to maybe 20-25.00 per record, they may be more affordable. I see many new vinyl LP’s out on the market and even they are around 30.00 each, so unfortunately, the costs are there. The bottom line is and I have come to realize is that this is a hobby. Like my other hobbies such as film and movie photography, it’s all a “niche” market and none of it is cheap. It’s almost as if you put up the money or you don’t.

[donniej]

Market saturation: You mean Don Wilson? He went from zero to a Berliner jobber in what, two years?

That's the best quote about me I've ever seen! Thank you, I hope you won't mind if I use it

Regarding market saturation, the market is dead and we 78 and cylinder makers are simply having fun. I would not have been able to copy 400 scarce, desirable and/or rare records if it weren't for the wonderful people willing to loan them to me, and a little bit of luck. I'm super-excited to see Vulcan entering the disc market and can't wait to see where they go with it. Duncan has been doing this sort of work longer than anyone (I think?) and he certainly knows the market better than I do. But he's not the only one entering the 78 market, I've also been teaching at least one other person who's about to start releasing his own copies of some really desirable 1920's jazz.

The main issue is that as much as people say they want to see new 78's available, not many people actually buy them. The reason is simple, there are *so*many* reissues out there from the 30's to the 50's... UHCA, Jazz Lovers, Moldy Fig, the list goes on and on. Then we get into the revival bands like "Firehouse Five Plus Two" (who I love) and anyone who wants fun 78's to play can find an endless supply for $0.50 - $5 per. But what about some of the big dollar blues records that most people could never afford, even if they could find it? SURELY those must sell? Nope. The average collector doesn't care and the moneyed collectors turn their noses up at anything other than the genuine artifact. Curley Weaver, Pink Anderson; they just don't sell.

Maple Leaf Rag sells. Dixie sells. Drill Ye Tarries Drill sells. 78's of covers or lesser-known songs don't sell. I probably gave away or dumped $1,000 worth of molds that never sold a single copy, these included clean, early 7" Columbias of Sousa's band pieces, hard to find ODJB sides and pre-dog Victors. A march is a march, jazz from the teens sucks, ragtime reminds people of cartoon music and most of the good stuff was reissued or redone in the 40's or 50's during the strike dujour.

Lastly, what is the second thing most collectors say when they mention the great new record they bought? They mention what a great deal they got it for. The thrill of the hunt cannot be discounted as part of the experience, and that's really difficult to do in a retail operation.