Guidance on Needles Needed

[LPR]

Hello, a newbie here. I just refurbished a Pathéphone Model 110 to working order after rescuing it from an old farmhouse attic. It was an ordeal, as one of the springs had broken and the head (or reproducer, if that what it's called) was missing. I found another one on Ebay for $25 and it was a prefect fit.

My problem is the needles. I found three types of steel needles scattered within the cabinet and they seem to work OK on the Pathé records we also found. I will order new/clean ones, per the guidance I've seen, but I don't know which type I should use. There is a short shaft, long shaft, and combination shaft (larger upper shaft, smaller lower). See the attached pics. I have Pathé records (lateral cut, I think) and some Victors given to me by a friend. I've read steel needles will ruin Victor records so they may need a special type. My question: What needle types can/should I purchase so I can play both Pathé and Victor records?

Thanks for any help you can give.

[VanEpsFan1914]

Hi, welcome to the forum! Good rescue, too--most of those poor old Pathephones end up scrapped for parts. Good on you for saving it.

You heard wrong. Stop playing records on that thing. NO needle exists that will let you play both types, unless you get into bamboo/fiber but I'm not sure on their Pathé performance.

VICTOR RECORDS play with STEEL NEEDLES, which you use only ONCE. And you never, ever play them with the reproducer turned forward like that for vertical cut.

Pathé RECORDS play with the Pathé Sapphire Ball Stylus which can be used again and again, with the reproducer oriented exactly as shown.

Use steel needles only once, and don't ever use the old ones. Chances are they're already used. Throw them out and start afresh.
They are available new on eBay along with Pathé sapphire needles, new old stock. The Pathé needles are very expensive $60 but they're worth it. Because steel needles will destroy Pathé records in a few plays.

And did you rebuild the reproducer? She might sound good now, but fresh gaskets are usually a revelation!

[52089]

And just a reminder that the later Pathé records that say "Actuelle" on then are lateral cut records like regular 78s and use steel needles.

[Lucius1958]

Again, to clarify: the photos show the reproducer positioned for VERTICAL CUT Pathé records. To play regular 78s, you must turn the reproducer around 90 degrees.

As before, get a sapphire ball for the Pathés, and NEW steel needles for 78s.

Bill

[52089]

Again, to clarify: the photos show the reproducer positioned for VERTICAL CUT Pathé records. To play regular 78s, you must turn the reproducer around 90 degrees.

But do beware that the Pathé tonearms are made of pot metal that swells up over time. If you have difficulty turning the reproducer, search the board for tips on how to remedy the situation.

[drh]

To clarify: Discs that look like the following







Take a sapphire ball stylus (first photo shows the full assembly in its brass shank; the second has a close up of the tip with a modern stereo stylus for comparison) with the reproducer turned for vertical cut grooves. Note the inscription "sapphire record" visible on some. By the way, the first one, with the artist info and whatnot etched into the record's surface rather than affixed on a paper label, is a so-called "center start" and plays from the label out, not in the more usual rim-to-center fashion.






Records marked "actuelle" that look like these





play with steel needles and the reproducer turned for lateral (side to side) grooves. Note the inscription "needle cut."

Be aware that while you won't often encounter them "in the wild," some other labels play with the sapphire ball. Ones that occur to me immediately are Rex, Rishell, Aerophone, and Disque Diamond. Not all examples of all these labels do, but you can usually tell just because sapphire records, once you've examined a few, have a distinctive "look" about them.

Congrats, by the way, on rescuing the Pathéphone. My first spring phono was a Pathé Model 100, and I nurse a sentimental fondness for Pathé products.

[LPR]

WOW!! You all are awesome!!! You saved me from wrecking some vintage records. We rescued about 20 Pathé records (not Actuelle) from the farmhouse attic along with the player, so I assumed the steel needles were for them. WRONG! (You know what they say about "assume.") Anyway, I'll be picking up a sapphire stylus (for the Pathé records) and some steel needles for the Victors and other 78s.

The orientation of the reproducer was something I hadn't seen either. Your guidance is great. If you have some photos of the correct orientation of each, that would help. Otherwise, I'll just do some more searching.

I think I'm going to enjoy this forum. All the best to you!

[alang]

I don't have an actual manual for the sound box, but here is a patent document for it, which may help understand how it works.

Andreas