Correct handle for a HMV Intermediate Monarch?

[nostalgia]

Is someone able to show me the correct winding handle for my Intermdiate Monarch from my uploaded photos?
I miss the handle. I understand HMV made three different three-piece winding keys and would be very happy if someone
know which one to look for. There is a photo of the three different winding keys on page 262 in "The Book", but I am not sure
which one is the correct for my Monarch that is listed on page 60 in the same book. The winding key to the far left on the page 262 photo is excluded, since it has no bend in the metal, but there are still two options...
Thanks,
-Nostalgia-

[Oedipus]

In illustration 9.54 on page 262, the one on the right is what you want (it has an internal thread, both the others are slotted). See also page 60, which shows an Intermediate Monarch/ Model 2 exactly like yours, with the correct winder.

[Menophanes]

In case it is still relevant, I give below a picture (rather a poor one, unfortunately) of a very similar though mahogany-cased machine which I once owned. The crank was rather small (I found it quite difficult to use) and the flat section had a distinct double bend in it. As Oedipus has said, it was internally threaded. My machine was date-stamped 16 [?] December 1913; from the style of brake I think nostalgia's must be older.

Oliver Mundy.

[nostalgia]

Thank you to Oedipus and Menophanes. Yes, I saw the photo on page 60, but was still uncertain of what handle it was. But when you, Oedipus, showed me the correct handle (to the far right )on illustration 9.54 page 262, all doubt was left out. Thanks again, I now know what too look for, and also can avoid potential wrong purchases.
-Nostalgia-

[Oedipus]

Thank you, Oliver, for showing us that machine with a date -- always useful in gathering information. That tells me that the mahogany version still had the earlier, shallow top and bottom mouldings in late 1913 (Page 61 of HMG shows the later style, but I don't know when the change came). You are right about the brake; my own version is exactly the same as Nostalgia's, with a cannon brake, and has two dates on the base, November 1911 and January 1912.

Nostalgia, have you looked underneath yours for a date stamp? hey are often very faint,and can be on one of the labels, or on the wood. Sometimes a rubber stamp in mauve ink, sometimes a pencilled scrawl, or both, and as mine demonstrates, there can be two different dates!

[nostalgia]

Vow, this was interesting enough:) I have not looked underneath the Monarch before, and I now found a stamp mark, and an additional date.
My phone is not the best for takinc pics, but it is easily readable September 2011. Can you imagine Oedipus, our two Monarchs left the factory not far apart in time, and have lived independent lives for more than 100 years, and now "meet" in this forum. I find that really cool:;)..to use a modern word..in a not so modern forum;) Or maybe that is exactly what we are...modern... ahead of our times, taking care of our history, something that always should be modern!

-Nostalgia-

[Oedipus]

Yes, that's an interesting thought. Mind you, I do not know exactly what these dates signify -- the date the cabinet was completed, the date the machine left the factory to go into stock, or the day it was dispatched to a dealer -- and why do some have two dates? Anyway, it is a useful reminder to collectors always to look underneath Gramophone Company machines of the 1909-1920 era. Whatever the date actually means, it is as close as we will ever get to a precise date, unless the original bill of sale survives. And the last time I saw one of those, it was dated a year or more after the model in question had ceased production!

[nostalgia]

Again reopening an old thread, to share some updates and photos..and also ask some questions. This thread was started back in July last year, at the initial stages of my renewed interest in wind up gramophones, where life in general finally allowed me to focus on what now has become the most wonderful hobby I could ever dream to have. I would hardly been able to imagine how much time I have spent on the hobby, and how much joy it would bring me in the forthcoming months, and where I also have been able to learn A LOT from you, the forum members and experts, and also now also have expanded my collecting hobby to service somewhat complex HMV motors etc.
When the thread was started I was lacking the winding key to the HMV Intermediate Monarch, and it took me almost a year to find it, with a motor that no longer needed its winding key. That was also the goal, finding a scrap motor with the winding key still attached, even when I over time rather quickly understood that the opposite is most often what is happening, finding a motor/machine with no winding key. Two days ago I saw an advert with the Monarch case on the photo posted below, and on the photo emailed me I saw the winding key was still attached. I was not sure from the photos though if it was the right key, having the threads on the inside, but I grabbed the phone..and drove out in the morning, 30 minutes after seeing the ad. Inside the Monarch case, which really is in surprisingly excellent conditon (compared to the motor), was a scrap motor with no spring, and missing major parts..and all rusty, but the winding key was there, and it was the correct one for my Monarch at home. Yeah !! It is rusty, but the wood part is still attached, but I understand I know have to teach myself how to nickel plate, I do not want the key to stay this rusty. I don't know if the wooden part is detachable though, it does not seem to be, as far as I see it. No screw in the middle of the handle...
Along with it I also got this nice Monarch case, it has survived well, despite the rusty motor parts, and misssing tonearm, turntable etc. I have on the photos cleaned it with Swarfega, it was VERY dirty. Along with it came also the Deutsche Grammophon horn, despite some flaws I like its patina and look. So the questions, if someone can give some inputs.
1. Do you think the horn is original to the machine? The machine is stamped inside, October 27th 1911. The horn has the DG trademark on it.
2. Do you think the Monarch is German made, since this is from the time of DG and HMV was under the same roof in Germany? I have for instance never seen this case enforcement inside a Monarch earlier on...The stamp is UK though, since it says Oct..and not Okt. I don't know if these cases for the production in Germany were made in the HMV (Hayes) factory and exported to Germany, or was made locally in Germany...?
3. Would you do something with the horn (repaint), or keep it as it is?

And I guess the wise words from this post must be something like..."Never give up searching for a missing gramophone part, it may show up at a time when you never expected it to show up..."

PS, I also got a scrap polyphone like instrument named Ariston with this package , and some paper records along with it. I googled it to be an organette,,but since it is in terrible condition, I feel the landfill is on the horizon for this instrument, really. I can't think of what possibly to do with it...I will keep the paper records, but the rest..all rusty and missing winding key , wooden case losing its veneer etc...hmmm

Update: Looking more closely at the motor, there is actually not that many parts missing...The governor spring, the main spring, and the top of spring case, wrong bolts used to attach the spring container to the motor board. Possibly a future project, or used for parts for a future single spring Monarch motor missing some parts...and the cannon brake is an extra, of course.

[Menophanes]

Certainly the crank looks exactly like the one on my old machine, mentioned in this thread last year. It even has the same worn section on the shaft where this has been rubbing against the tube of the escutcheon-plate!

Oliver Mundy.

[soundgen]

Sold recently on Ebay not perfect but useable l I'm clearing everything out and will look for another , post if I find one , 4 lock up garages with 40 years of gramophone detritus , skipped or free to collect

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254569934071