Difference in sound quality and output of different machines

[m1tch]

Hi everyone,

As most of you have got nice large collections of different machines I thought I would ask how different sorts of machines give different outputs.

I only have a common HMV 102 but has a 5A which apparently is quite good but its only a portable meaning it doesn't have a large horn like some etc.

Can I have some input into what the different sorts of machines are like, I will be looking at getting a decent cabinet model (which seem to be quite cheap at the moment due to the size etc) when I move into a new place after Christmas.

What do the extra horns give to the music? I guess I need a break down of portable machines like the 102, horn machines like the HMV 130 or something full blown like a victor victrola cabinet etc

I might also get a cylinder phonograph as well at some point

[larryh]

The size of the horn and quality of the reproducer will make a huge difference in what you hear. Generally the larger the horn the more quality to the output, but not always. Depending on what you want to do, a brunswick with Ultona head will play all three kinds of records with a slight edge on sound quality to my ear. However if you want to go with Edison Disc machines the larger 250 horn or the 150 medium horn will give good results and Edison was able to produce a more realistic sound. Of course a orthophonic machine with nearly any sized horn will give good results with a decent reproducer as well a the VivaTonal Columbia's which are rarer to find. I am sure we have a lot of large Victor cabinet machine fans here as well and I have had many of them, I just find them a bit on the harsh end but everyone won't agree there. Phonographs are fun in any size, but sometimes size does matter.

[SignatureSeriesOwner]

On my XVII (With a No.2 repro.) most records sound good. There isn't as much frequency response as I'd like with some, which leads to minor distortion, but, it was only made to operate within certain parameters. Exceed them, and you will get distortion.

I bought a Orthophonic Granada a few weeks ago, and I put a Orthophonic 20's dance record on it I was previously playing on my XVII. The difference literally knocked me off my feet. On a lot of records, it plays so clearly and crisp, it sounds as if I have a orchestra in my room. None of my RADIOS can touch the sound reproduction of that machine as far as "live-sounding" goes. It amazes me. I was listening to "Rhapsody In Blue" a few days ago (which is normally something I would never do) but it was if I was in the room with the artist recording. It's crazy. If It has that big of a reaction now, I can only imagine what it was like 85 years ago. There isn't a single video of one on YouTube that can do it justice. You have to hear it in person.


Don't get me wrong, pre-1925 Victrolas sound very good, but you can't compare them to the Orthophonics. Two entirely different machines, in my eyes.

[m1tch]

Ah ok, so it seems to be quite a bit about the horn for depth of sound and a decent reproducer to get the best from the recording then?

On the larger machines, does the sound box work the same as with my portable?

With regards to a HMV 102 vs 130, the soundbox and tone arm look the same, but the body and I am guessing the horn is larger - would that mean that the 102 produces 'acceptable' sound for the size, but when coupled to a larger horn it becomes better?

I know I won't be touching something like a Luminaire etc what are the different soundboxes like? How do they differ with different sound outputs? Why for example is a no. 5 box better than a no. 4 box?

[bbphonoguy]

Just wanting to put in my 2 cents (hey! when did the "cents" symbol disappear from keyboards?) I'll state the obvious and say that, from my small collection, the Credenza is almost unbeatable for electric records. When playing records from the acoustic era I always use my VV 230. The horn is nice and big, and I could swear that its large one-piece lid acts as a sounding board somehow.

[m1tch]

I guess we need to split this section into electric and acoustic machines just to make thinks harder lol

Am I correct to say that 78s on shellac are for acoustic gramophones like mine, and then 78s,45s, 33 1/3s and 16s are for electric machines?

[bbphonoguy]

Well, the acoustic era pretty much ended in 1925 when the new electric recordings became available. One can play acoustic or electric '78's on either a "regular" Victrola or an orthophonic Victrola, I just try to play records on a machine from the same era, as much as I can, but it's not a strict rule. Of course 45's, 33's and 16 rpm records should not be played on a Victrola at all, unless it's done as a joke and you don't mind destroying the record.

[Edisone]

Well, the acoustic era pretty much ended in 1925 when the new electric recordings became available.

Not so: the millions of families who already owned phonographs mostly turned their attention to Radio. "Ortho" type machine sales were tiny, compared with the standard Victrola types of 1910 to 1925. (Columbia's 50cent labels, recorded acoustically, were their main source of income into 1929) Most families who wanted phonograph music at home made-do with what they had, until the late 1930s when cheap phono-to-radio units ecame available.

Many people were still "winding the Victrola", after WWII (and don't forget that rural areas were mostly on spring/kerosene/mule power until after 1950!) .

[gramophoneshane]

I think bb was referring to mainstream acoustic recording coming to an end in 1925

[frenchmarky]

<<Many people were still "winding the Victrola", after WWII (and don't forget that rural areas were mostly on spring/kerosene/mule power until after 1950!)>>

And Victor was still selling their Tungstone needles into the 1940s, I assume they were mostly going into acoustic machines. Reminds me of that 1956 Honeymooners episode where the latin dancer moves into the building, he plays the mambo on a little windup phonograph!

As for sound quality, my Victor Credenza and 10-50 machines with rebuilt soundboxes and their very large horns sound fantastic with a good 'electric' era record on the platter. They really do sound astounding on some recordings, you can't believe it's all coming from just a needle dragging along a groove, with no tubes or wires or speakers.

In comparison, if I play an electric record on my older, pre-orthophonic Victor vv-210, it does sound sharper and clearer than an acoustically recorded disc. But on the orthophonics the difference is on a totally different level, with the greater range of notes you can hear... it doesn't sound 'tinny' anymore. : ) I liken it to going from AM to FM.