Victor Type E

[antique1973]

This looks like the real deal. What do these go for usually?

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/atq/1814535415.html

[Uncle Vanya]

The Victor E (Monarch Junior) is a nice little machine. It is the same general size and configuration as the early trademark model, but is fitted
with a good two-spring motor (the same motor used in the larger Victor Monarch). They are relatively common, however.
At auction, good original examples often sell for less than $1000.

The machine in this listing has been extensively restored. The horn decal is a poor reproduction, the leather elbow is incorrect (by the time the E was introduced Victor was using a brass horn elbow on a threaded-end horn) and so I suspect the horn may be a cut-down cylinder unit, the reproducer is a late ('teens vintage) Exhibition that has been modified into a long-throat configuration, and the carrier arm may be a reproduction.

This would be a very nice machine to own, offering a good value in a front-mounted open horn Victor, and a pre-dog model at that, but may be a dangerous investment for resale due to the extensive restoration.

[Jerry B.]

It looks like a very good buy...maybe too good a buy. The very early Vic E's had leather elbows, but the craigslist machine has a reproduction elbow. I would also suspect other reproduction parts such as the horn, traveling arm, crank, etc. Even with the possibility of reproduction parts, it's a cute machine and priced right.

Uncle V... How can you tell from the face of the Exhibition that it's been converted to a long throat? Please educate me. Thanks, Jerry Blais

[Zeppy]

It looks like a very good buy...maybe too good a buy. The very early Vic E's had leather elbows, but the craigslist machine has a reproduction elbow. I would also suspect other reproduction parts such as the horn, traveling arm, crank, etc. Even with the possibility of reproduction parts, it's a cute machine and priced right.

Uncle V... How can you tell from the face of the Exhibition that it's been converted to a long throat? Please educate me. Thanks, Jerry Blais

There are a few give aways. I don't have the reproducers in front of me, but I'll go by memory of some of the difference. Most of these differences apply to early vs. later Exhibitions, so it would be possible to have a long throat, and an early regular Exhibition look alike. The earlier Exhibitions should have a curled nut rather than a hex nut for the balance screws. However, just like the round hole chuck vs. the triangle, isn't 100%, since those parts could have been upgraded. Another hint, which is usually pretty good is the font used for the "Victor Talking Machine, Co" on the face of the reproducer. If you look at the reproducers side by side, you can see a difference. I'm not sure if this is what Uncle V was thinking about, but that's what I usually look at. I actually have about a half dozen or more different variations of the Exhibition (between Victor, G&T, G Co., HMV and Zonophone) sitting at home. I keep saying one of these days I'll actually post photo here...but like most things, I just never get around to it.

[antique1973]

Thanks for the helpful info guys. It has too many repro/substitute parts for my taste I think.

[Uncle Vanya]

It looks like a very good buy...maybe too good a buy. The very early Vic E's had leather elbows, but the craigslist machine has a reproduction elbow. I would also suspect other reproduction parts such as the horn, traveling arm, crank, etc. Even with the possibility of reproduction parts, it's a cute machine and priced right.

Uncle V... How can you tell from the face of the Exhibition that it's been converted to a long throat? Please educate me. Thanks, Jerry Blais

There are a few give aways. I don't have the reproducers in front of me, but I'll go by memory of some of the difference. Most of these differences apply to early vs. later Exhibitions, so it would be possible to have a long throat, and an early regular Exhibition look alike. The earlier Exhibitions should have a curled nut rather than a hex nut for the balance screws. However, just like the round hole chuck vs. the triangle, isn't 100%, since those parts could have been upgraded. Another hint, which is usually pretty good is the font used for the "Victor Talking Machine, Co" on the face of the reproducer. If you look at the reproducers side by side, you can see a difference. I'm not sure if this is what Uncle V was thinking about, but that's what I usually look at. I actually have about a half dozen or more different variations of the Exhibition (between Victor, G&T, G Co., HMV and Zonophone) sitting at home. I keep saying one of these days I'll actually post photo here...but like most things, I just never get around to it.

Yes, this reproducer uses the "thin" font, post 1909.

Remember that Neuman Miller used to offer conversion services, where the back-plate of an ordinary Exhibition would be machined to the long-throat configuration. Back in those days no one seemed to pay attention to the variations in the Exhibition reproducer.

[Jerry B.]

Thanks Zeppy & Uncle Vanya, You are right! I come from that generation of collectors that bought the machined back piece and presto, you had a long throat. Thanks for educating a long time collector. Jerry Blais

[Uncle Vanya]

I, too began collecting in the 1970's. I noticed these little differences, and the REALLY old-time collectors (of the Johnny Boehm, Bob Adams and Dick Nevins variety) would shrug and say "What's the difference?"

Then they would return to their benches to nail the doors shut on yet another Victrola IV, bolt on an aluminum rear-mount with a cut-off cylinder horn and send the machine on to auction.

Cave-it Empty-tar, ya' know!

[Covah]