Pathé model 50 information

[emmatacey]

I am hoping I can find out some more information on this Pathé Phonograph. It was my grandfathers and he recently passed away. My family is currently cleaning out his estate and I would like to purchase this but I don't know anything about it. It does work, the brake holds and it will play though it was not played for an extended period as they did not want to do any kind of damage but just tested to be sure it worked. We also found a box of records but I have not been able to take them out and look. On initial exam the top few are not in good shape. I would appreciate any information that someone could provide. Can anyone provide how much this could be worth? The estate plans to have an auction and I would like to try to buy this prior to the auction. Thanks in advance for anything you can provide me.

[Curt A]

I think a fair market value would be $200-300 for this machine. Other members might have a better idea, someone with more information on this Pathé machine might be able to add something to the discussion. My opinion, which is only my opinion, is that this table model machine is not the most desirable to a seasoned collector. Obviously, sentimental value may trump market value, since this belonged to your grandfather.

78rpm records are not very valuable, for the most part. If there are any Pathé records with this, they would be important to keep with it. The average 78 is only worth $1.00 each or less, some titles are worth more, but you would have to be a collector to know which ones are. If all of the records are like the Dinah Shore record on the turntable in the picture, they are not desirable to most collectors and are not the correct type to be played with a steel needle on this acoustic machine. The correct era for records to play on this would be early 1900s to early 1930s shellac records, not composite records like this one that was made to play on an electric turntable... If you get this, use steel needles and change them for each record.

Hope this helps and I hope you get this machine and keep it in your family... I would love to have a machine that was owned by my grandfather... By the way, the wood in this machine is exceptionally nice, with beautiful graining, which adds to its desirability...

[drh]

I strongly second Curt A that (a) Pathé machines like the model 50 are not hot collectors' items but (b) given its family history you should do whatever you can to keep it. As to value, I think Curt is being a bit generous; a Pathé tabletop machine, although a Model 25, on eBay appears similar to your 50 and has been sitting there forever drawing no attention with a $150 buy it now option. Pathé open horn machines and the eccentric enclosed players of European design (like my "avatar" machine, a so-called Pathé Diffusor) tend to draw some interest, but the company's more "conventional" machines for the American market do not; regardless of model name or number, they all look more or less alike and all seem to have been middlin' machines aimed at the middlin' segment of the market.

Probably further depressing the value of yours is that it appears to have the wrong reproducer. If you look at the Model 25 online, you'll see that the reproducer (the round sound box that holds the needle) faces dead ahead at the end of the tonearm, whereas yours is on a tube that turns it 90 degrees. The former orientation is for so-called "vertical cut" discs, the latter for "lateral cut." Rather than go into detail here, please let me refer you to an article I wrote on the subject at https://www.tnt-audio.com/vintage/mono-a-mono_e.html Pathé machines when yours was new were intended to play Pathé vertical cut records; Pathé reproducers were designed to rotate to play either type, but, while It's hard to tell for sure from your photo, yours looks more like an adapter of some sort, not an original Pathé reproducer. Look and see if the Pathé name appears on the inside, behind the clear diaphragm; if not, it's probably an aftermarket piece of some sort. If the Pathé name does appear, examine the reproducer to see whether and how you can reorient it to face forward.

When you have a look at your records, please do *not* play any Pathé discs, particularly if the record label refers to sapphire, with a steel needle. If you do, you will quickly ruin them; those were made to play with a special large-radius ball-shaped sapphire stylus. As pictured, your reproducer is in the wrong position, and quite possibly of the wrong type, to play such records, but if it can rotate to face the way the one on the Model 25 does, you can play them provided you buy a sapphire ball stylus. These turn up in the forum's "Yankee Trader" section and on eBay from time to time.

The exceptions to the "no steel needles for Pathé records" rule are two in number. First are those labeled "Pathé Actuelle" and possibly "needle cut," as these were late acoustic issues when Pathé had given up on the vertical cut system and were always intended for play with a reproducer in the position of yours fitted with a steel needle. Second are those issued after electric recording displaced the old acoustic (horn and diaphragm) method in 1925, but, like the Columbia in your photo, these are not really well suited to your machine, which was built for acoustic recordings. If the issue arises, please feel free to come back with some label photos, and forum members will be happy to offer guidance.

If you play steel needle records on this (or any other acoustic) machine, please make a point of changing the needle with each play. The sapphire ball stylus, by contrast, is relatively permanent and need not be changed.

I hope I'm not coming across as too much of a wet blanket--I just figure you asked for information, and you're entitled to a straight answer. With all the foregoing said, I again will stress that the real value of this machine is not money but sentiment; I surely wish I had one that had come down through my family. There's something really special about cranking up one of these old soldiers and knowing that you are following in the footsteps of your forebears. I should further add that just because Pathé machines of this sort aren't hotly sought doesn't mean they can't be a lot of fun. My own first machine was a Pathé upright, purchased when I was in high school, and while it's hardly the most valuable machine I own, I probably played and enjoyed it more than I have any of the more "substantial" players I've bought since. Finally, note that although the reproducer is probably "wrong" from a collector's standpoint, playing regular lateral 78s with it will be easy, and those records are both more readily found and, in the world of popular tunes (operatic fare is another matter), more musically satisfying than the uncommon Pathé vertical cut discs. Good luck, and happy listening!

[Neguz]

yes You can play lateral cut records with the proper steel needle, the tone arm is for lateral cut only, you need to set it up for 78 rpm, to play the original Pathé records you need to set the reproducer fasing front, if the broken arm holds, I see the volume control, that needs to be set-up
hope this help

[Curt A]

emmatacey,
Please let us know how the story ends...
Did you get it or not?... How much did you have to pay for it?
If you have any more questions about how to use it or anything else, please post them here.

Curt

[Victrola-Monkey]

Just like to empathize what Curt said about the wood and point out that the potentially yours oak phonograph is much more desirable than the common mahogany ones. It’s a shame you just can’t be given the phonograph outright as part of your inheritance, but as the executor of both my mom’s and dad’s estates over the last 15 months, I understand. It would be over the top if you could find a picture of your grandfather with the phonograph. I happen to have a pair of oars of my great grandfather and a picture of him using those oars in his row boat... such a special combo to have.

[emmatacey]

Thank you so much for the information! I have so much to learn. I hope to look at the player more and the records soon.